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Thread: Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal

  1. #121
    Designated Threadkiller LincolnparkRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal

    Based on those comparisons Wayne looks like GM of the year already.
    Climbing down from the bridge, but keeping the torch lit until Dusty's fate is settled

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  3. #122
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by LincolnparkRed View Post
    Based on those comparisons Wayne looks like GM of the year already.
    Free agent signings are a lot different than signing arb-eligible players.

    And I'd say it's a combination of Krivksy AND Harang that made this deal work. Krivsky didn't low-ball him too much, and Harang chose to take less money in exchange for 5 years of security.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  4. #123
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    Re: Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal

    I think one thing that may be lost in the shuffle here is that the Harang signing, while smart, does not directly improve the Cincinnati ballclub either this year or next. We still have the same top-heavy, no-depth starting rotation, the festival of junkballers in the bullpen, and a somewhat emasculated offense.

    In the euphoria over locking up perhaps the best starter the Reds have had since Jose Rijo, perhaps it's a good idea to remember that.

  5. #124
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmith421 View Post
    I think one thing that may be lost in the shuffle here is that the Harang signing, while smart, does not directly improve the Cincinnati ballclub either this year or next. We still have the same top-heavy, no-depth starting rotation, the festival of junkballers in the bullpen, and a somewhat emasculated offense.

    In the euphoria over locking up perhaps the best starter the Reds have had since Jose Rijo, perhaps it's a good idea to remember that.
    Nah, let us revel in the moment! Go Reds!

  6. #125
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    Re: Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmith421 View Post
    I think one thing that may be lost in the shuffle here is that the Harang signing, while smart, does not directly improve the Cincinnati ballclub either this year or next. We still have the same top-heavy, no-depth starting rotation, the festival of junkballers in the bullpen, and a somewhat emasculated offense.

    In the euphoria over locking up perhaps the best starter the Reds have had since Jose Rijo, perhaps it's a good idea to remember that.
    Good point smitty. Not to rain on Redmetz' parade but....aw heck, why not....this didn't really change anything about the Reds starting rotation next year. The money in arbitration, win or lose, would have been pretty much the same so....(shrug)

    However, it may have (possibly) effected Krivsky's approach to other deals if he had locked up Harang earlier and had more certainty about the long term. Maybe he wouldn't have gone after geriatric relievers. Or, maybe he would have gone after a younger version of Conine (for less money). Or, maybe, just maybe, he would have been tempted to spend $18M of that $23M that he squandered on dreck to sign Zito and give the Reds the dominant starting staff in the division (or league). (shrug)

    Rem

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    Re: Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal

    And I'd say it's a combination of Krivksy AND Harang that made this deal work.
    Of course. Just like, when a free agent chooses not to come to Cincinnati, the free agent himself has a say in the matter.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  8. #127
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog View Post
    Good point smitty. Not to rain on Redmetz' parade but....aw heck, why not....this didn't really change anything about the Reds starting rotation next year. The money in arbitration, win or lose, would have been pretty much the same so....(shrug)

    However, it may have (possibly) effected Krivsky's approach to other deals if he had locked up Harang earlier and had more certainty about the long term. Maybe he wouldn't have gone after geriatric relievers. Or, maybe he would have gone after a younger version of Conine (for less money). Or, maybe, just maybe, he would have been tempted to spend $18M of that $23M that he squandered on dreck to sign Zito and give the Reds the dominant starting staff in the division (or league). (shrug)

    Rem
    According to Krivsky in today's Enquirer, they've been working on a LTC since last summer. Who knows why it took so long. As I noted last week when Myers signed with Philly, maybe they all needed to see what Harang's market looked like.

    I think the Reds are expecting the other pitchers to step up. I admit that's a huge question mark with Milton, although the brief times he was healthy, he was good last year. I'm a bit more hopeful for Lohse and a full year with us. I'm not among those who think he's a pile of garbage. We'll see how the fifth spot plays out. I like our candidates there better than last years.

    There is no question that long term, this is great for the Reds. So rain away, I'll celebrate today and look forward to the Reds in the years ahead.

  9. #128
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    Re: Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog View Post
    However, it may have (possibly) effected Krivsky's approach to other deals if he had locked up Harang earlier and had more certainty about the long term. Maybe he wouldn't have gone after geriatric relievers. Or, maybe he would have gone after a younger version of Conine (for less money). Or, maybe, just maybe, he would have been tempted to spend $18M of that $23M that he squandered on dreck to sign Zito and give the Reds the dominant starting staff in the division (or league). (shrug)

    Rem
    Actually, i don't think this deal gets done until Krivsky knows what his other payroll commitments for '07 and '08 look like. Castellini has likely set a limit on payroll that probably is non-negotiable for Krivsky. So Krivsky has got to fill holes for the now and also extend Harang.

    Basically, Harang was here in '07 for a known salary (at least the Reds knew what the worst case would be in arb) whether he was extended or not. Krivsky likely wanted to plug the leaks as best he could so that he knew what was left for Harang because extending him could actually give the reds extra wiggle room for '07 and '08 if they needed it depending upon how the money was spread over the final years.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  10. #129
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Actually, i don't think this deal gets done until Krivsky knows what his other payroll commitments for '07 and '08 look like. Castellini has likely set a limit on payroll that probably is non-negotiable for Krivsky. So Krivsky has got to fill holes for the now and also extend Harang.
    This move was an absolute no-brainer and should have governed the future payroll commitments of the team, not the other way around. With how bad the pitching has been on this team over the recent past, not locking him up would have been a disaster.

  11. #130
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    Re: Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmith421 View Post
    I think one thing that may be lost in the shuffle here is that the Harang signing, while smart, does not directly improve the Cincinnati ballclub either this year or next. We still have the same top-heavy, no-depth starting rotation, the festival of junkballers in the bullpen, and a somewhat emasculated offense.

    In the euphoria over locking up perhaps the best starter the Reds have had since Jose Rijo, perhaps it's a good idea to remember that.
    Yep, I love the Harang contract as much as anyone else, and it absolutely needed to get done.

    But you're absolutely right that the Reds did not directly improve in 2007 or 2008. This team was four key players short two days ago, and they're still four key players short today. We could use another league average or better starter for the rotation, another slugger for the offense, and two solid relievers for the bullpen that specialize in missing bats.

    Additionally, Jerry Narron needs to figure out where to start certain specific players in order to maximize the lineup and defensive potential.
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  12. #131
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    This move was an absolute no-brainer and should have governed the future payroll commitments of the team, not the other way around. With how bad the pitching has been on this team over the recent past, not locking him up would have been a disaster.
    This move will govern future payroll commitments obviously. But why should it have been done before everything else when extending Harang first might have prevented Krivsky from making another move he felt was necesary? Waiting until the roster was mostly set basically meant the Reds could spread Harang's money over the contract in a way that was more beneficial. To me it's not really a trivial detail.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  13. #132
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    This move will govern future payroll commitments obviously. But why should it have been done before everything else when extending Harang first might have prevented Krivsky from making another move he felt was necesary? Waiting until the roster was mostly set basically meant the Reds could spread Harang's money over the contract in a way that was more beneficial. To me it's not really a trivial detail.
    Harang should have been task #1 on his to do list. Picking up a Conine or Saarloos should have no bearing on what happens with Harang. Cincy isn't really in the business of doling out $100 million on FAs or trading for high-priced veterans, so this move didn't really need to wait since there isn't much to wait on, in the realm of major money deals. There should have been money earmarked for this situation by the latest last summer.

  14. #133
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    Yep, I love the Harang contract as much as anyone else, and it absolutely needed to get done.

    But you're absolutely right that the Reds did not directly improve in 2007 or 2008. This team was four key players short two days ago, and they're still four key players short today. We could use another league average or better starter for the rotation, another slugger for the offense, and two solid relievers for the bullpen that specialize in missing bats.

    Additionally, Jerry Narron needs to figure out where to start certain specific players in order to maximize the lineup and defensive potential.
    Yup, and they were four key players short 4 months ago as well.
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    Re: Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal

    There should have been money earmarked for this situation by the latest last summer.
    And it made sense for Harang to wait until the new class of free agent pitchers were signed and his market value increased.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  16. #135
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal

    IMO, the Reds aren't trying to win this year. They're trying to take advantage of a weak central to make it look like they are competitive so that attendance doesn't collapse while they position themselves for 2008. A lot of the stuff that Wayne has done, while being viewed as crap by a lot of folks, is still the type of stuff that other players think is "improvement" (as many players aren't necessarily what you'd call analytical) If the Reds tread water this year I think they'll have an easier time attracting a decent FA or two next offseason.
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