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Thread: College BB - Tourney Talk

  1. #31
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: College BB - Tourney Talk

    Teams I root for in NCAA basketball:

    UNC
    Kent
    Michigan
    Locals: UD / Wright St.

    Doesn't look too good for me this year other than UNC.
    'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
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    Your Mom is happy.

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  3. #32
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: College BB - Tourney Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by DTCromer View Post
    The only difference between Kelvin and every other major DI football/basketball coach is that he got caught.
    If that's true, then it Kelvin must be pretty bad at cheating -- which is another knock on the guy.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  4. #33
    The wino and I know bucksfan's Avatar
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    Re: College BB - Tourney Talk

    I can agree that the Buckeyes have been overrated all year. I thought it ridiculous to put a team so high, and above schools with more proven players returning. That said, they have not lost to anyone of dubious stature. The next time a close win does not count in any sport that I follow will be the 1st. They may go to sleep, lose focus( or whatever they did the 2nd half of the Penn St game!), but they still are a good team and will only improve. I don't expect them to go to the FF, but I think they will be very dangerous in a tournament setting also.

    I love the 1st 2 rounds of the tournament like no other time in sports. Mixing in St. Patrick's day, spring training heating up, etc makes that a really fun time of year.
    "I'm virtually free to do whatever I want, but I try to remember so is everybody else..." - Todd Snider

  5. #34
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    Re: College BB - Tourney Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Shines 1B View Post
    Why do you have to be so down on Krzyzewski? I don't understand why people hate him so much.
    If you've got an interest in another ACC team, it's maddening to watch the love that's shown by everyone for Duke 24/7/365. Including the zebras. Same stuff every year.

    www.truthaboutduke.com Check it out some time.

    All the talking heads gush about how classy K is. Have you ever read his lips on the sideline during a game? F this and F that. From the way he hung out Pete Gaudet in 1995 to Myron Piggie & Corey Maggette to Matt Christiansen's behavior at the end of the 2002 NCAA regionals to Dahntay Jones' behavior on the court to the jobs that Chris Duhon's mother and Carlos Boozer's dad mysteriously received in Durham to JJ Redick's wonderful 1on1 skills (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9ww5sd21bY) to Josh McRoberts having his own set of rules when it comes to traveling (or not). (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7DjZehIGvs). The entire Duke offense has been predicated on jacking up a lot of 3s for many years. Yet Duke always goes to the foul line more than their opponents. Doesn't that seem to be inconsistent?

    People see it. People hear about it. But it's like the program is coated in Teflon.

    The fact that K won't play any non-conference road games at an opponent's home court is also annoying. This year, they'll play their only non-conference road game on an opponent's home court on Feb 25th when they play St. John's in Madison Square Garden. Their other "road games" this year? vs. Air Force and Marquette in Kansas City, and Gonzaga in New York.

    http://www.goduke.com/SportSelect.db...45&SPSID=22726

    Last year, they played at Temple and at Indiana. Their other road games were vs. Drexel & Memphis in NYC, vs. Texas in East Rutherford, and UNC Greensboro in the Greensboro Coliseum.

    Go to page 13 of 22 in the Results section of the Duke media guide and count the number of true road games they've played in the past 5 years.

    http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.db...45&SPSID=22748

    Most importantly, though, it's the "crazies" in Cameron. They were funny and entertaining 15 years ago. But their schtick has more than run it's course. The Cheer Sheet fiasco a couple of years ago with Maryland is one of my favorite stories.

    If a chasm in the earth opened and swallowed Coack K, Dick Vitale, and the mindless band of zombies that still buys how "classy" the entire program is, the world would be a better place, IMO.

  6. #35
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: College BB - Tourney Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan View Post
    I can agree that the Buckeyes have been overrated all year. I thought it ridiculous to put a team so high, and above schools with more proven players returning. That said, they have not lost to anyone of dubious stature. The next time a close win does not count in any sport that I follow will be the 1st. They may go to sleep, lose focus( or whatever they did the 2nd half of the Penn St game!), but they still are a good team and will only improve. I don't expect them to go to the FF, but I think they will be very dangerous in a tournament setting also.

    I love the 1st 2 rounds of the tournament like no other time in sports. Mixing in St. Patrick's day, spring training heating up, etc makes that a really fun time of year.
    I like the Buckeyes alot to. Oden and Conley are from here in Indy so I follow them kinda close. A win is a win no matter against who but I think they need to focus on playing better because if they play the way they have the last two games I can see them getting knocked out very early in the tourney. Hopefully these two games will serve as wake up call to them.
    Last edited by George Anderson; 02-15-2007 at 01:02 PM.
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  7. #36
    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: College BB - Tourney Talk

    I just don't see the Buckeyes being consistent enough to run 6 straight in the tournament. There's no shame whatsoever in losing the games they did, but at some point they're going to have to beat a team like that. The upcoming game against Wisconsin will go a long way in determining if they've progressed to that level or not.

    My other favorites are Syracuse, who needs to pick it up a little if they want to get in, and Toledo, who is feasting on the crappy west division in the MAC right now. No one is going at large in the MAC this year so the tournament is everything there.

  8. #37
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: College BB - Tourney Talk

    What did Sampson do to cheat?
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  9. #38
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    Re: College BB - Tourney Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    What did Sampson do to cheat?
    Under Sampson's watch Oklahoma was placed under a three-year investigation by the NCAA for recruiting violations at the school. The NCAA issued a report citing more than 550 illegal calls made by Sampson and his staff to 17 different recruits. Oklahoma preemptively put itself on two years probation by reducing scholarships for two seasons.Sampson has also been criticized for a low graduation rate, but he maintains that the reporting methods are flawed for not taking transfers into account, or those who do not graduate in six years.

    On May 25, 2006, the NCAA barred Sampson from recruiting off campus and making phone calls for one year, ending May 24, 2007. The NCAA placed no restrictions on Sampson text messaging recruits.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin_Sampson
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  10. #39
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: College BB - Tourney Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by 15fan View Post
    If you've got an interest in another ACC team, it's maddening to watch the love that's shown by everyone for Duke 24/7/365. Including the zebras. Same stuff every year.

    www.truthaboutduke.com Check it out some time.

    All the talking heads gush about how classy K is. Have you ever read his lips on the sideline during a game? F this and F that. From the way he hung out Pete Gaudet in 1995 to Myron Piggie & Corey Maggette to Matt Christiansen's behavior at the end of the 2002 NCAA regionals to Dahntay Jones' behavior on the court to the jobs that Chris Duhon's mother and Carlos Boozer's dad mysteriously received in Durham to JJ Redick's wonderful 1on1 skills (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9ww5sd21bY) to Josh McRoberts having his own set of rules when it comes to traveling (or not). (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7DjZehIGvs). The entire Duke offense has been predicated on jacking up a lot of 3s for many years. Yet Duke always goes to the foul line more than their opponents. Doesn't that seem to be inconsistent?

    People see it. People hear about it. But it's like the program is coated in Teflon.

    The fact that K won't play any non-conference road games at an opponent's home court is also annoying. This year, they'll play their only non-conference road game on an opponent's home court on Feb 25th when they play St. John's in Madison Square Garden. Their other "road games" this year? vs. Air Force and Marquette in Kansas City, and Gonzaga in New York.

    http://www.goduke.com/SportSelect.db...45&SPSID=22726

    Last year, they played at Temple and at Indiana. Their other road games were vs. Drexel & Memphis in NYC, vs. Texas in East Rutherford, and UNC Greensboro in the Greensboro Coliseum.

    Go to page 13 of 22 in the Results section of the Duke media guide and count the number of true road games they've played in the past 5 years.

    http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.db...45&SPSID=22748

    Most importantly, though, it's the "crazies" in Cameron. They were funny and entertaining 15 years ago. But their schtick has more than run it's course. The Cheer Sheet fiasco a couple of years ago with Maryland is one of my favorite stories.

    If a chasm in the earth opened and swallowed Coack K, Dick Vitale, and the mindless band of zombies that still buys how "classy" the entire program is, the world would be a better place, IMO.
    First off I don't really care how many "true" road non-conference games they've played in the last five years. Teams still seem to want to play them, and if they get to dictate the terms more than other teams because of their success then more power to them.

    That website you gave was somewhat interesting, I thought there would be some hidden truth or something, when actually it was just a bunch of people ripping Duke with articles that anyone could find. I mean the one makes a case that Coach K is classy.
    Duke opened 1994-95 with a 9-3 record before Krzyzewski left the team because of back surgery and exhaustion. Interim coach Pete Gaudet went 4-15 the rest of the way to cap a 13-18 finish.

    Because those final 19 games went on Gaudet's record, a Krzyzewski-coached Duke team has never lost more than four straight.

    "I should have been credited with all the losses," Krzyzewski said.
    He readily admits those losses should have been his, and it says something about how good of a coach he is, 9-3 with 4-15 without.

    That Youtube clip of Redick was just dumb. Do you know how many players use that off hand like that? He didn't swing it so much as he held it out, was it an offensive foul? Yes. Do things like that go un-noticed all the time? Yes. And I would argue that the Duke offense is more than just jacking up threes, but I really don't care about swaying your opinion on that.

    What I do care about is questions of Krzyzewski's character and class. I know from first hand personal experience about his character. This is kind of a long story, but it's worth it in my opinion to maybe change some minds about the kind of person he is.

    When I was in highschool I played basketball. During our senior year one of my best friends (also on the team) was diagnosed with cancer. He had to quit in the middle of the year and go through chemo, it was a tough thing to watch. He was a huge Duke basketball fan, his goal was to take his scholarship to a JuCo and play there a year or two then try to play at Duke. It was a long shot but he was a hard worker, but after the cancer obviously that dream was gone. Well after about a year the cancer seemed to have been gone and he graduated and about a year and a half after highschool he got married. Things seemed to be going well for him.

    After about a year of marriage he went in for a routine check up and scan for cancer and the Dr. dropped a bombshell on him. The cancer was back and had spread to his lungs and brain. The Dr. gave him about six months to live. This was a hard time for me, but me and his other friends put on our brave faces and spent just about any free time we had with him. One of my friends had an idea to see if we could get Coach K's email and see if he would call or send Matt (friend with cancer) a message. So we got the email address and sent him and email telling him Matt's story and his love for Duke basketball it was during basketball season so we weren't expecting much. The last Duke game Matt watched, they lost and he took it hard. Well two days after we sent the email Coach K called, unfortunately he called in the afternoon and Matt had died that morning. We his wife and the rest of us got back from the hospital to their house the message was waiting, he had left his personal Cell #. After some debating of what to do we convinced her to call him back.

    She spent the next hour and a half talking with him. I won't go into all that was said but it is probably immeasurable what it meant to her, it may sound cheesy and hallmark, but she cried and laughed with him. He did other things for her and Matt's family, but nothing was as important as talking with my friend's widow that day.

    So I really don't care what website you produce to tear down the man's character, I know what kind of man he is.

  11. #40
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    Re: College BB - Tourney Talk

    Clearly earth shattering stuff. He made too many phone calls.
    I'm surprised he's even allowed to coach.
    The guy broke the rules, got caught, apologized and moved on.
    Seems to me he did okay before these infractions, and I think he'll be okay after the probations over.

    In the mean time I'm not sure how anyone could dispute the results from his first season are overwhelmingly positive.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  12. #41
    Member 15fan's Avatar
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    Re: College BB - Tourney Talk

    Razor -

    Clearly I've touched an emotional nerve. I'll leave the character discussion alone out of respect for your late friend and we can agree to disagree.

    Here are the current stats for the Duke basketball team.

    http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketba...season=2006-07

    643-1363 from the field, including 148-395 from 3. Opponents are 573-1411 from the field, including 105-357 from 3. That means that Duke shoots 29% of their shots from outside the arc and 71% inside the arc, compared to their opponents taking 25% of their shots from outside the arc and 75% from inside the arc. Yet Duke is 374-542 from the free throw line, while their opponents are only 284-410 from the FT line.

    Doesn't it seem counter-intuitive that a team that shoots a greater percentage of shots from outside the 3 point line has also shot 33% more FTs than their opponents? I'd think that the teams who shoot more 2 point FGs would be shooting more FTs.

    Go back a year to 2005-2006.

    http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketba...season=2005-06

    Duke was 979-2011 from the field, including 274-707 from 3, compared to 952-2215 and 143-471 for their opponents. That's 35% 3s and 65% 2s for Duke, compared to 21% 3s and 79% 2s for the opposition. Yet Duke went 689-905 from the foul line, compared to 408-612 by their opponents. How does a team that shoots so many 3s also get to shoot 50% more FTs than their opponents?

    It's the same thing every year. Pick a year from the database, and you'll notice the same pattern.

    http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/seasons/

    And as far as his scheduling, I just think that if I routinely had 5, 6 or 7 high school all-americans on my roster, I wouldn't be afraid to go play a couple of true road games each year. I'd play UConn in Storrs, or Florida in Gainesville, or Texas in Austin, or UCLA at Pauley Pavilion, or Kentucky in Rupp Arena, or Kansas in Lawrence. But K won't even take his talent to play Marquette in Milwaukee.

  13. #42
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    Re: College BB - Tourney Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by DTCromer View Post
    ANd I'm still laughing at Mutaman who thinks a loss is more impressive than a win.

    Why is it so hard to understand the concept of homecourt advantage in college basketball? Its easily worth 10 points, particularly in Madison where Ryan never loses. I can guarantee you that despite beating OSU at home and losing to Indiana on the road, the Badgers would much rather play Indiana as opposed to OSU, on a neutral court in the Big 10 Tourney or in the NCAAs.

  14. #43
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: College BB - Tourney Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by 15fan View Post
    Razor -

    Clearly I've touched an emotional nerve. I'll leave the character discussion alone out of respect for your late friend and we can agree to disagree.

    Here are the current stats for the Duke basketball team.

    http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketba...season=2006-07

    643-1363 from the field, including 148-395 from 3. Opponents are 573-1411 from the field, including 105-357 from 3. That means that Duke shoots 29% of their shots from outside the arc and 71% inside the arc, compared to their opponents taking 25% of their shots from outside the arc and 75% from inside the arc. Yet Duke is 374-542 from the free throw line, while their opponents are only 284-410 from the FT line.

    Doesn't it seem counter-intuitive that a team that shoots a greater percentage of shots from outside the 3 point line has also shot 33% more FTs than their opponents? I'd think that the teams who shoot more 2 point FGs would be shooting more FTs.

    Go back a year to 2005-2006.

    http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketba...season=2005-06

    Duke was 979-2011 from the field, including 274-707 from 3, compared to 952-2215 and 143-471 for their opponents. That's 35% 3s and 65% 2s for Duke, compared to 21% 3s and 79% 2s for the opposition. Yet Duke went 689-905 from the foul line, compared to 408-612 by their opponents. How does a team that shoots so many 3s also get to shoot 50% more FTs than their opponents?

    It's the same thing every year. Pick a year from the database, and you'll notice the same pattern.

    http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/seasons/

    And as far as his scheduling, I just think that if I routinely had 5, 6 or 7 high school all-americans on my roster, I wouldn't be afraid to go play a couple of true road games each year. I'd play UConn in Storrs, or Florida in Gainesville, or Texas in Austin, or UCLA at Pauley Pavilion, or Kentucky in Rupp Arena, or Kansas in Lawrence. But K won't even take his talent to play Marquette in Milwaukee.
    First of all it wasn't an emotional nerve, you said he's not classy and basically called me a mindless zombie for thinking that he is. I have first hand knowledge of his character and class, so I won't agree to disagree you're just wrong.

    Ok so they shoot 4% more 3's this year than their opponents, wow that's a shocking difference. Last year and the year before they had one of the greatest 3 point shooters in college basketball history, seems like a good reason why they would have shot a lot more 3 pointers than other teams.

    As far as the free throws go well they win a lot, and when they're up late in games teams usually foul intentionally. Ok so I looked up a few stats of my own UNC this year has taken 43% more free throws than their opponents and 25% of their shots are 3's, Florida takes 34% more free throws than their opponents and 32% of their shots are 3's. It seems like teams with winning records take more free throws than their opponents. These are the only two teams I checked though.
    These stats are from http://northcarolina.rivals.com/bstats.asp?team=UNC

    It seems like Duke is usually in games with a lot of fouls called both ways. UNC has had 304 fouls called against them and their opponents have had 414 fouls called against them. Duke has had 436 fouls called against them and 505 against their opponents.

    Does Duke get some calls because of who they are? Yes. So do a lot of popular teams. So did Michael Jordan and Larry Bird and Majic Johnson and now Lebron James, I don't think they all got calls because of Krzyzewski though. I'm sorry I don't believe that there is a conspiracy.
    Last edited by Razor Shines; 02-15-2007 at 07:50 PM.

  15. #44
    Joe Oliver love-child Blimpie's Avatar
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    Re: College BB - Tourney Talk

    Does anybody else like Memphis to make some noise in the tourney?
    "Booing on opening day is like telling grandma her house smells like old lady."--WOY

  16. #45
    Member Playadlc's Avatar
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    Re: College BB - Tourney Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    What did Sampson do to cheat?
    The charges were too many calls over a 4 year period to 17 recruits. 550 calls over 48 months is 11 calls each month - less than 1 illegal call per month per kid. As in "I called - the kid wasn't home - I called back". The NCAA - in its infinite stupidity and hypocrisy - calls that an "illegal" call.
    DLC11@Insightbb.com


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