Marty Brennaman slams Adam Dunn....again.

[TRF]

But the key question, central to this discussion, is whether those fans would see 3 or 4 games a year instead of 1 or 2 if Marty was less critical of Dunn, EE, and more upbeat about the Reds in general.

I don't believe they would. They would hear Marty's pratter, look at the standings and think to themselves, "the team still sucks, I'd rather go to Kings Island".

Additionally, because Marty has the most exposure via radio does not imply that he is the best means by which to market the team. Also, we should consider are as many kids today listening to Reds on Radio as we all seemed to do back in the 70's? Matt700wlw could help us with that one. If the majority of the listeners are Grandmas who've listend for years, they likely aren't the best "target market" for using Marty as a marketing tool.

This is too black and white an answer.

So if Marty starts talking about Dunn as someone that could end up as one of the greatest HR hitters of all time, and kids hear that, you don't think someone's parent is going to get pestered to take the kids to a game?

[RollyInRaleigh]

But then when I go to GABP I see a flood of young kids in Dunn shirts. How do we jive that up to the idea Marty is quelling a generation of youngsters from likeing Dunn?

Seems to me that kids (1) likely don't pick up on the derision Marty has towards Dunn (2) don't have the attention span to obscess over it like we do.

With the advent of the internet, more extensive TV coverage, etc do as many kids rely on 700wlw for their Reds fix as before? I think the bigger issue is what effect (if any) does Marty have on the adults listening, especially those with disposable income who are likely to take in a ball game.

Very little.

People are going to like the players that they like, regardless of Marty, and they don't need Marty telling them anything to get a case of the "goo." There are plenty of idiots who are thinking for themselves, throwing change at Ken Griffey Jr. at the ballgames.

[pedro]

You can go on and on and on saying that it doesn't matter Ltlabner. And maybe you're right. Regardless, that doesn't excuse his vindictive, nasty demeanor. He's the only announcer I've ever heard that does it and in my book it's both annoying and inexcusable.

[IndyPhils]

The golden tones of the hall of famer regarding Adam Dunn:

"I'm tired of hearing people say he'll give you forty homers and drive in a hundred runs every year. First of all, he didn't drive in 100 runs last year. The most overrated stat in baseball is the damn home run. Give me a guy that'll run to his position and run off the field. More often than not, he walks to his position and walks off the field. Give me a guy that shows some life out there. His approach to hitting is the same if the count is 0-0 or 3-2. We all know his knowledge of the strike zone because he walks over a hundred times a year."

RBI is an overrated stat. It doesn't capture accurately how productive a player is when he actually played. OPS is a much better measurement or OPS+.

RBI is primarily a team based stat. Obviously, teams that score a lot of runs will have a lot of guys with rbi because of the more opportunities for RBI. That's why On Base Percentage is so important. Not making outs is the single most important thing in the game of baseball. Great player on a bad team or in the wrong part of the lineup will not get RBI's. Lack of opportunity.

Soriano last year 46 HR 95 RBI, Washington stubbornly bated him leadoff most of the year. Despite his relatively poor On base skills .351. Even with a career high in walks by more than double.


What's better a team with 1.000 OBP or 1.000 SLG?

Old baseball is maddening for it's inaccuracies. Brennamen is playing on cliches.

[BLEEDS]

Once they started talking about batting Dunn 6th and or 9th, I turned it off the second I got out of the shower. Look, I dont like Dunn a whole lot as a player. He frustrates me more than any player I have ever seen. His batting average drives me insane. That said, his on base percentage is way to good to be hitting him 6th or 9th. In all honestly, bat him 3rd, let Edwin hit behind him, then have Griffey behind Edwin. I think that everyone benefits from that line up.

Griff will bat 3rd or 4th as long as he can get himself to the on-deck circle.

What you don't want is to put EE batting 4th SIMPLY because you think you need to break up the lefty-lefty hitters.

Batting Order should be:

CF - Freel
2B - Phillips
LF - Dunner
RF - Griff
3B - EE
C - Ross
1B - Hattenberg/Conine/
SS - Gonzo


Not too bad. Problem is with those last two spots. We lost ~40 HRs there between Kearns and Lopez - DON"T GET ME WRONG, I won't miss Lopie, his errors caused us to break even with his offense.

Phillips, EE, and Ross make up for it some, but we need a reliable 25/85-95 guy if we want to compete with the Big Boys in the Division, esp. considering our current pitching situation. In theory, that should be an OF-er and we put Dunn at 1B, where he belongs. If Joey Votto is the future, then put him in there next year.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[Ltlabner]

This is too black and white an answer.

So if Marty starts talking about Dunn as someone that could end up as one of the greatest HR hitters of all time, and kids hear that, you don't think someone's parent is going to get pestered to take the kids to a game?

Actually, I think it's really that simple. The casual fan wants to see winning baseball. When they plunk down their wad of dough for the family to take in a game they want to know they are going to see a good game. They could give a witt about who's got the best VORP, who's projected to be the next HOF player or if Dunn's walks agument his OPS. They want to see a great game. Period. If they feal their investment isn't going to be rewarded at GABP they are going to go elsewhere.

The second part is more of a grey area. I guess if Marty can manufacture some excitement the kids would latch on to that...yea, you are probably right there. But I think kids generally already do have that excitement about Dunn. Take a survey of the city I'd be willing to bet Dunn's name is the one you'd hear the most if you asked young kids. Go to the park and see how many "Get'R Dunn" shirts are walking around on youngsters.

[BRM]

You can go on and on and on saying that it doesn't matter Ltlabner. And maybe you're right. Regardless, that doesn't excuse his vindictive, nasty demeanor. He's the only announcer I've ever heard that does it and in my book it's both annoying and inexcusable.

This is the point M2 brought up earlier in the thread. Does anyone know of any other team's PBP guy that derides their team's players like Marty does? I haven't listened to them all so I don't know. However, the ones I have listened to certainly have not talked that way.

[Ltlabner]

You can go on and on and on saying that it doesn't matter Ltlabner. And maybe you're right. Regardless, that doesn't excuse his vindictive, nasty demeanor. He's the only announcer I've ever heard that does it and in my book it's both annoying and inexcusable.

Then the anwer is simple my friend, turn off the radio. When you see Marty's name in print put it on mental "ignore". Don't read the news story. Don't listen to the man. Don't read threads on RZ that have his name in them. You don't like him, which is your right and fine by me. But don't try to convice me that he's attila the hunn simply because you find him annoying.

[IndyPhils]

The difference being your promotion of the Reds extends to you friends and acquaintances. Marty's reach is significantly wider.

But it isn't just the constant discussion of his golf game. I can live with that. I can live with him discussing his dinners too. What I can't abide is the disgust in his voice when he derides one of the BEST players on the team he works for simply because he doesn't understand his value. He misrepresents Adam Dunn to a general public that is likely not as informed as it could be. Note that I didn't say SHOULD be. Casual fans drive this game. And Marty is telling the casual fan that he has given up on Dunn, and that he would trade him. He infers over and over how he'd rather have a 40+ year old in Steve Finley who by the way is no where even close to being the offensive force that Adam Dunn is.

I'm all for pointing out a players faults. I just don't think Marty understands Dunn's assets, and he ascribes faults that do not exist.

Phillies did the same thing with Bobby Abreu (.922 career OPS). The media constantly dogged him about occasional lapses going back to the fence on balls. The fans picked this up and helped run him out of town. Calling him lazy for not looking like he was hustling. Abreu was smooth on the bases. It didn't look like he was hustling enough for some fans. But the guy flaout produced: Abreu career stats

[pedro]

Then the anwer is simple my friend, turn off the radio. When you see Marty's name in print put it on mental "ignore". Don't listen to the man you find so repulsive. You don't like him, which is your right and fine by me. But don't try to convice me that he's attila the hunn simply because you find him annoying.

I do a lot of the time. But should Reds really want an announcer who is so divisive that he drives fans away? Because he does.

[IndyPhils]

This is the point M2 brought up earlier in the thread. Does anyone know of any other team's PBP guy that derides their team's players like Marty does? I haven't listened to them all so I don't know. However, the ones I have listened to certainly have not talked that way.

In Philadelphia, the on air team does the same thing "WHeels" gets fed negative talking points as if to motivate certain players during the broadcast.

It's not common to only Reds broadcasts.

[pedro]

In Philadelphia, the on air team does the same thing "WHeels" gets fed negative talking points as if to motivate certain players during the broadcast.

It's not common to only Reds broadcasts.

Harry Calas doesn't do it does he?

[westofyou]

This is the point M2 brought up earlier in the thread. Does anyone know of any other team's PBP guy that derides their team's players like Marty does? I haven't listened to them all so I don't know. However, the ones I have listened to certainly have not talked that way.

I have a long history with the west coast announcers, over 25 years and I can tell you none from here have done it, that includes guys like Lon Simmons, Hank Greenwald, Jon Miller, Bill King, Jerry Coleman, Dave Niehaus, Ron Fairly, Vin Scully, Charlie Steiner, Ray Fosse, Greg Papa, I also grew up on Ernie Harwell and I can attest he didn't do it either.

[BRM]

In Philadelphia, the on air team does the same thing "WHeels" gets fed negative talking points as if to motivate certain players during the broadcast.

It's not common to only Reds broadcasts.

That's interesting to know. I assume the Phillies radio guys were pretty hard on Abreu?

[dabvu2498]

I've heard Uecker get down, down, down on Geoff Jenkins. Perhaps not as bad as Marty, but it does happen to some extent in any locale.