Do you believe that the attendance would improve if George Grande was the voice of the Reds? If so, by how much?Originally Posted by westofyou
Do you believe that the attendance would improve if George Grande was the voice of the Reds? If so, by how much?
The difference being your promotion of the Reds extends to you friends and acquaintances. Marty's reach is significantly wider.Glad to know I'm only drinking kool-aide and not comming to my opinions on my own because I'm not wringing my hands over all of Marty's horrific faults.
But I know, it's only the "pro-Marty" camp that hurls insults.
But it isn't just the constant discussion of his golf game. I can live with that. I can live with him discussing his dinners too. What I can't abide is the disgust in his voice when he derides one of the BEST players on the team he works for simply because he doesn't understand his value. He misrepresents Adam Dunn to a general public that is likely not as informed as it could be. Note that I didn't say SHOULD be. Casual fans drive this game. And Marty is telling the casual fan that he has given up on Dunn, and that he would trade him. He infers over and over how he'd rather have a 40+ year old in Steve Finley who by the way is no where even close to being the offensive force that Adam Dunn is.
I'm all for pointing out a players faults. I just don't think Marty understands Dunn's assets, and he ascribes faults that do not exist.
Dubito Ergo Cogito Ergo Sum.
Well, Cardinals fans would be more likely to come. George always will luv him some Cardinals...
I don't really know if Marty hurts attendance or not. However, I can't imagine how it would not help attendance at least a little if he gushed with excitement over the young exciting players on the squad. If he pimped EE, Phillips, Dunn, Harang, Coffey, Bailey, etc...maybe, just maybe, he gets more people interested in coming to the park. I don't know. It certainly wouldn't hurt though.
I can't see how telling people Dunn is a lazy oaf and EE can't play defense gets anyone excited to come to the park. Add in the fact that the Reds aren't all that good as a team and some people will just stay home. The trick is to get folks to come out when the team is rebuilding or just bad. Get folks excited to come out and watch the young kids anyway and look to the future.
No, thats why I listed the others and then compared the 10's of hours they influence us vs. the 100's of hours Marty does.
You yourself said you listen to most of the games. That means you spend 100's of hours with Marty. You likely spend a fraction of that seeing billboards, etc.
Who is the biggest marketing influence from the Reds on you? Marty.
I grew up 100+ miles from Cincy. Most of the people in our area are Reds fans. Most of them listen to darn near all the games. I'd say most of those same people only attend 1 or 2 games a year. I know of 100's of people that fit this description, if not 1000's.
GL
Last edited by gonelong; 02-21-2007 at 01:02 PM.
Let's put it this way. I never lived in Cincinnati. The closest I've gotten to living there was when my parents rented an apartment in Tipp City when I was 2. I grew up following the Reds because my dad liked them and he would drive around with me in the car on the weekends, listening to Reds' games on a staticky WLW because he couldn't get the games on the radio in the house. This was during the BRM era and I was pretty young, but I don't recall Marty being such a pill when it came to players on the team. My two favorite players were Johnny Bench and George Foster. As I got a little older, I started to really get into baseball and the Reds in particular. Then we moved to the Akron area. At that point my only access to Reds baseball was through newspapers, This Week in Baseball, the occassional game of the week, and games on the radio when we could get it in. I started really paying attention in '80, when I was 9, and started following them religiously in '81, checking box scores every day, making a note of where certain Reds might be in relation to the league leaders. The strike was awful, and the decision to go with a "split season" format seemed like the greatest injustice ever. I loved listening to the games on the radio, but not because I was listenting to some HOF broadcaster who "told it like it was." I listened because I loved the Reds and thought they were the greatest team ever, or at least had the chance to be so.
Then, from '82-'84 the Reds were terrible, but I still followed them religiously. I knew every player and all the important facts about them. When we played wiffle ball in my backyard, I would pretend to be the Reds and would bat left or right-handed based on who was "up" in the lineup. I was so naive I thought every player on that team had the chance to be great. I believed that guys like Paul Householder or Duane Walker could be great ballplayers. I still listened when I could, I didn't have the day-to-day access to Marty's broadcasts to know if he slagged the players on those teams with the same level of disgust in his voice like he does now. If he was the same way back then as he is now, I don't know if I would be much of a Reds fan today, or even a baseball fan. When you're a kid and the person who is your sole outlet for live baseball involving your favorite team is constantly deriding the players on that team, would you want to listen to it? If you're a kid and your favorite player is Adam Dunn, is it going to make you want to listen to more games when that old guy on the radio keeps telling how awful he is?
I don't know, maybe he was going in the direction he is now when Dick Wagner introduced another person into the booth to rein Marty back in. Maby Bob Castellini brought in Thom to see if it causes Marty to tone it down a bit.
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Here's my question, can anyone name another team broadcaster in any sport that regularly takes digs at the players on the team?
I've lived in multiple media markets in my lifetime. I've heard and seen plenty of broadcasts and I've never encountered anyone remotely like Marty. I guess that makes him unique, but my reaction to him as someone who's got no historical connection with the guy is, "Wow, that guy's a complete (insert phallic reference here)."
Obviously there's those who don't mind, but it is abnormal behavior.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
Great post, particularly this section.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
I respect a lot of you guys, but I honestly don't think that Marty's radio persona is keeping anyone away from the ballpark. There are some folks whose opinions might be influenced by Marty's opinions, but I really don't think it's going to keep someone from buying a ticket to see a game.
My only comment here is that he may not be keeping people away, but the way he sometimes creates a somewhat poisonous aura around a ballplayer sure doesn't help.
The great unwashed masses of Reds fans do listen to what Marty says and take it to heart. I about got killed by a 15 yr. old niece when debating the relative merits of Sean Casey vs. Adam Dunn and it was verbatim Marty-speak. They listen to what he says and take it as The Truth.
Us folk here in RedsZone really are the lunatic fringe of Reds fans and purt near close to outside the 3.5 sigma of the bell-shaped curve of Reds fans.
But besides his penchant for getting the goo about certain players, I love the way Marty does a game and think he is as relevant as he ever was.
She used to wake me up with coffee ever morning
agreed kind of. I think it keeps people from buying as many tickets as they might otherwise. Certainly Marty is only part of the problem. The overall marketing of the reds is very weak. The thing about Marty is he isn't part of the solution.
Marty can call the great play like few others can.
The problem is the game isn't always great plays. His position demands that he help market the team, and he has no clue how to do that because he doesn't understand the game as it is, just as he sees it.
His view of the game is flawed. His view of the players is skewed by visions of legends he stood next to. He got to walk with baseball greatness, but never understood what made them great.
Dubito Ergo Cogito Ergo Sum.
I was always tall growing up. When I was playing little league, I was already over 6' tall and pushing into the 6'2-6'3 range. I'd have absolutely idolized a tall player like Adam Dunn growing up, especially as I got frustrated about batting cages that threw nothing but pitches at my knees and ankles and strike zones that seemed to stretch for miles on my frame.
I don't know what impact it would have for me, as a kid, listening to an announcer smack my favorite player into the ground. I don't know that such a player would ever become my favorite player if I had to go to bed each night listening to his play be derrided and his effort questioned.
It's little things like that -- a kid sitting at home in a ballcap that wants to find a player to emulate. Someone to model his batting stance off or an at-bat ritual to copy. Who knows if it has an impact, but why not just err on the side of caution and not go there? The marginal benefit of "telling it like it is" surely isn't worth the potential detriment of losing fan interest, even if it is only a minute amount lost.
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But the key question, central to this discussion, is whether those fans would see 3 or 4 games a year instead of 1 or 2 if Marty was less critical of Dunn, EE, and more upbeat about the Reds in general.
I don't believe they would. They would hear Marty's pratter, look at the standings and think to themselves, "the team still sucks, I'd rather go to Kings Island".
Additionally, because Marty has the most exposure via radio does not imply that he is the best means by which to market the team. Also, we should consider are as many kids today listening to Reds on Radio as we all seemed to do back in the 70's? Matt700wlw could help us with that one. If the majority of the listeners are Grandmas who've listend for years, they likely aren't the best "target market" for using Marty as a marketing tool.
Oh, I think he would too but he'd have to realize he isn't king of RedsZone. He'd also probably learn the hard way that he would have to change the way he disagrees with someone. If he started calling names when someone would disagree with him, he'd be out of here so quick, it'd make his head spin. But if he could control himself, he would contribute a great deal.Personally, I think Marty would fit right in here at Redszone.
But I don't think it's a good idea for people like Marty - or Curt Schilling - to post openly on message boards.
But then when I go to GABP I see a flood of young kids in Dunn shirts. How do we jive that up to the idea Marty is quelling a generation of youngsters from likeing Dunn?
Seems to me that kids (1) likely don't pick up on the derision Marty has towards Dunn (2) don't have the attention span to obscess over it like we do.
With the advent of the internet, more extensive TV coverage, etc do as many kids rely on 700wlw for their Reds fix as before? I think the bigger issue is what effect (if any) does Marty have on the adults listening, especially those with disposable income who are likely to take in a ball game.
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