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Thread: Numbers don't add up?

  1. #1
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Numbers don't add up?

    Numbers don't add up?
    Spring training performances are not always an accurate measurement
    BY JOHN FAY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

    SARASOTA, Fla. - Flash back to February 2003. Austin Kearns comes out of the batting cage on one of the back fields at the Ed Smith Stadium complex shaking his head.

    "This guy's throwing like it's the seventh game of the World Series," Kearns said.

    The guy Kearns was talking about was Josias Manzanillo. Manzanillo came to spring training after pitching in Winter Ball. He was in shape and bent on making the team.

    He made the team that spring by putting up a 0.75 ERA over 11 innings. He allowed only four hits and looked fairly awesome.

    Once the season started, it didn't quite work out as planned. He gave up 21 hits and had a 12.66 ERA after nine games when the Reds shipped him out - but not before Ken Griffey Jr. wrecked his shoulder making a diving stab at a gapper allowed by Manzanillo.

    Moral of this anecdote: Don't trust spring training numbers.

    Based on last year's spring training, Brian Buchanan was headed to the Hall of Fame. Once the real games started, he was overmatched at Triple-A Louisville.

    Ryan Wagner was the Reds' best reliever each of the last two springs. His ERA in the regular season was 6.11 in '05 and 4.70 in '06. Not exactly lights out.

    That is not to say what Homer Bailey does this spring doesn't merit headlines. But spring training numbers often lie.

    Now that we've made that disclaimer, here's what we'll be looking for this spring:

    The No. 5 starter competition: Kirk Saarloos has the advantage of experience. But Matt Belisle was very good in two starts at the end of last year and in Winter Ball.

    Belisle's stuff is in the upper echelon of Reds pitchers. Elizardo Ramirez had a 4.21 ERA before his shoulder began bothering him. Bobby Livingston, Victor Santos and Paul Wilson are also in the mix.

    "We've got a lot of guys to choose from," Reds manager Jerry Narron said.

    Bailey, at least nominally, is in the mix as well.

    Adam Dunn: The guy fans love to hate is supposed to show up today. The kind of shape he's in will get major scrutiny, although talk that Dunn was fat last year was wrong. He's not going to win Mr. Olympia, but he carries his 270 pounds well. The guy's 6 feet 6 with legs like tree trunks.

    But his average has gone from .266 to .247 to .234 the last three years. And his on-base-plus-slugging percentage has gone from .956 to .927 to .855. He has to reverse that trend or the Reds might be hurting offensively.

    Josh Hamilton: Forget about his off-the-field problems. The big question is, can he still play? Hamilton, a Rule 5 pickup and former No. 1 pick overall, is a specimen and has a gun for a left arm. But he barely has played since 2002. The Reds probably are willing to tie up a roster spot if they feel it's worth the risk.

    Closer: The Reds pretty much know what they're going to get form left-hander Mike Stanton and right-hander David Weathers. The plan to use them as co-closers could change if one of the young pitchers - Todd Coffey or Bill Bray - looks particularly good this spring.

    Right or center: Narron sounds as if he's leaning more toward playing Griffey in center field than right. That makes sense because Jeff Conine plays only left or right and figures to get a lot of time as the fourth outfielder.

    REMEMBERING VERNON: The shocker of last spring was that pitching coach Vern Ruhle had cancer. Ruhle, of course, succumbed to the disease Jan. 20.

    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...80415/1082/SPT
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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  3. #2
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Numbers don't add up?

    Right or center: Narron sounds as if he's leaning more toward playing Griffey in center field than right. That makes sense because Jeff Conine plays only left or right and figures to get a lot of time as the fourth outfielder.
    Yeah it makes sense if it was 1997.... Does John Fay "Like" and "Study" baseball?

    Or does he just spew unexamined and moronic statements such as the above regarding all aspects of his life?

    I can hear him now..... "When you're thirsty, nothing hits the spot like water" or "Gravity keeps me from flying into space"

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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Numbers don't add up?

    Yeah, I had to laugh at the comment to keep Griffey in CF in order for Conine to get playing time. Fay is a horrible writer. The tidbit about Dunn showing up early is the only reason I posted the article in the first place.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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    Member kbrake's Avatar
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    Re: Numbers don't add up?

    I have no doubt Griffey will be in CF on Opening Day. It is one of those things that honestly makes it hard to root for the Reds.

  6. #5
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Numbers don't add up?

    I don't know if it makes it hard to root for the Reds, but it does make it hard to take them serious in their talk of wanting to improve the defense.
    Go Gators!

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    Member kbrake's Avatar
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    Re: Numbers don't add up?

    I mean I will always root for the Reds but when there is such a simple move that can be made to drastically improve the team and they choose not to do it, it is extremely frustrating.

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    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Numbers don't add up?

    I'm always amazed by the beat writers. Always. I read every spring about how everything is hum drum and there isn't much to write about. NOTHING could be further from the truth. The first 10-15 days of Spring Training are nothing but great tid bits and overflowing stories. That is unless you are a LAZY, UNINTERESTED HACK that professes to love a sport they clearly do not understand. Or you show up 2 to 3 hours AFTER everyone has worked out and the clubhouse is nearly empty. Why do these guys have jobs? Fay is really poor. Actaully let me re-phrase that. I meant Really, really, really poor. I think he just writes whatever the PR dept tells him to write. I'm not even kidding. I see C. Trent is falling into the same mode. What a shame.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

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    Curveballer Candy Cummings's Avatar
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    Re: Numbers don't add up?

    Jeff Conine is this year's Royce Clayton.
    **I'm just throwing the world curve balls.**

    Click here for FalconBlog

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    Re: Numbers don't add up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Cummings View Post
    Jeff Conine is this year's Royce Clayton.
    There is certainly a decent chance that he will hit that way.

  11. #10
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Numbers don't add up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Cummings View Post
    Jeff Conine is this year's Royce Clayton.
    Or Tony Womack
    Go Gators!

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    Re: Numbers don't add up?

    Quote Originally Posted by kbrake View Post
    I have no doubt Griffey will be in CF on Opening Day. It is one of those things that honestly makes it hard to root for the Reds.
    It also drives home the fact that they truely dont care about winning. 95+ lose season in 2007!!!!!!!!!
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

  13. #12
    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: Numbers don't add up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark View Post
    I'm always amazed by the beat writers. Always. I read every spring about how everything is hum drum and there isn't much to write about. NOTHING could be further from the truth. The first 10-15 days of Spring Training are nothing but great tid bits and overflowing stories. That is unless you are a LAZY, UNINTERESTED HACK that professes to love a sport they clearly do not understand. Or you show up 2 to 3 hours AFTER everyone has worked out and the clubhouse is nearly empty. Why do these guys have jobs? Fay is really poor. Actaully let me re-phrase that. I meant Really, really, really poor. I think he just writes whatever the PR dept tells him to write. I'm not even kidding. I see C. Trent is falling into the same mode. What a shame.

    I'm not going to defend the Reds beat writers, but overall I'm not impressed. But in NY, small stories take on a life on their own as the "battle for the back page" takes over, and the writers get blamed for stirring the pot and making big issues over nothing. So sometimes, these guys are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

  14. #13
    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: Numbers don't add up?

    Quote Originally Posted by kbrake View Post
    I mean I will always root for the Reds but when there is such a simple move that can be made to drastically improve the team and they choose not to do it, it is extremely frustrating.

    Everytime I want to chalk "the trade" up to a simple mistake, move on and start to like WK I remember his faith in Narron and I just can't do it.


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