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Thread: Notes: Hamilton awaits game action

  1. #31
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    Re: Notes: Hamilton awaits game action

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am not sure its possible for Conine to bomb.... he OPS'd last season at the age of 40 to the tune of .724, so Krivsky signs him to a contract. There isnt much more bombing to happen from a 41 year old. The fact that the Reds seriously signed a guy who turns 41 in May to a contract when the season before he OPS'd .724 makes my brain hurt.
    The guy who you were looking up who "bombed" with that OPS of .724 is Denorfia.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...?playerId=6431

    But I suppose you'll argue that his limited number of at bats was the issue.

    Only problem is he had six more ABs than Conine who actually OPSed at .717.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...?playerId=2443

    Here is the funny thing with this argument, Conine and Denorfia were essentially the same player last year with roughly the same number of ABs, though Conine was the much better run producer. The obvious question becomes, how can Deno be so adored while it is a joke to sign Conine?

    I could see the anti-Conine sentiment if there was also sentiment that Deno belongs back in AAA if the 2006 Major League numbers are the factor. You can't say Conine bombed last year and then not say the same exact thing about Deno. You just can't.

    If you want to bring defense and the CF spot into the discussion that is another thing but I think Conine was signed to pinch hit as much as anything and I don't think Conine will be any factor in whether Deno is our starting CF.

    And if he isn't the starting CF or starting somwhere do we want him sitting on the bench? Maybe he has proved all he can at AAA but what does he gain from being the fourth or fifth OF? That is a role for a guy like, oh, I don't know, Jeff Conine. If someone gets hurt, Deno is only a car ride away.
    Last edited by MaineRed; 02-28-2007 at 11:18 PM.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Notes: Hamilton awaits game action

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    The guy who you were looking up who "bombed" with that OPS of .724 is Denorfia.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...?playerId=6431

    But I suppose you'll argue that his limited number of at bats was the issue.

    Only problem is he had six more ABs than Conine who actually OPSed at .717.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...?playerId=2443
    Denorfia had 106 at bats last season. Conine had 489 at bats last season. With that said, Chris Denorfia posted a similar OPS as Conine, with 106 at bats spread across 5 months, while Conine did it with consistant playing time.
    Also, what does Conine bring to the other side of the ball? Chris Denorfia is a top notch defender. We cant say that about Jeff Conine.
    Here is the funny thing with this argument, Conine and Denorfia were essentially the same player last year with roughly the same number of ABs, though Conine was the much better run producer. The obvious question becomes, how can Deno be so adored while it is a joke to sign Conine?
    Again, I dont know what you are looking at, but Conine had nearly 500 at bats last season. As far as run production, that is a team stat in which factors are never comparable between two players. What I do know is that Chris Denorfia was given 1 month where he had more than 30 at bats. He put up a .352/.407/.463 line for an .870 OPS. The fact is that Conine was poor, consistantly all of last year. Chris Denorfia, when given playing time consistantly, in AAA hit .349. When given consistant time in the majors he put up the line I previously stated. I dont expect Denorfia to hit .352 if he is given consistant playing time in the majors, but .300 surely isnt out of the question. The problem I have with signing Conine is that 1, he will be 41 in May and his skills are obviously declining at this age, and 2, they werent that good last year. Oh and 3, there is no reason he should be anywhere near the outfield given the situation we have. If he is going to play, let him be part of a first base platoon.
    I could see the anti-Conine sentiment if there was also sentiment that Deno belongs back in AAA if the 2006 Major League numbers are the factor. You can't say Conine bombed last year and then not say the same exact thing about Deno. You just can't.
    I can. I already explained it. When given consistant playing time, Chris Denorfia put up great numbers both in Louisville and in Cincinnati. It is when he had 50 at bats spread out over 4 months in Cincinnati that he struggled...
    If you want to bring defense and the CF spot into the discussion that is another thing but I think Conine was signed to pinch hit as much as anything and I don't think Conine will be any factor in whether Deno is our starting CF.

    And if he isn't the starting CF or starting somwhere do we want him sitting on the bench? Maybe he has proved all he can at AAA but what does he gain from being the fourth or fifth OF? That is a role for a guy like, oh, I don't know, Jeff Conine. If someone gets hurt, Deno is only a car ride away.
    I agree that Conine should be used only as a pinch hitter or maybe part of the 1B platoon, but when Narron starts talking about him being the 4th outfielder, it rubs me wrong in so many different ways. While the Reds have a problem in viewing him as a 4th or 5th outfielder, he still at worst is the Reds 4th outfielder, becuase there is no way that Jeff Conine is a better outfield option than Denorfia is... but the Reds are treating him like that is not true.

  4. #33
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    Re: Notes: Hamilton awaits game action

    My bad. I was only looking at his stats with the Phils last year. I didn't see that he also had 2006 numbers with the Os. The 100 ABs came with the Phils. Click on the Conine link and you'll see what I mean.

    I probably should know a little more about our 4th OFer, eh?
    Last edited by MaineRed; 02-28-2007 at 11:48 PM.

  5. #34
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    Re: Notes: Hamilton awaits game action

    I reiterate what I said earlier but I don't think the issue is Griffey or Conine v Deno but Deno as an everyday player v Freel as an everyday player. I don't think the REDS think they can have both on the same team. That being said they will probably see how it works in ST.

  6. #35
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    Re: Notes: Hamilton awaits game action

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmith421 View Post
    He's keeping five outfielders. I'm not a rocket scientist, but I know that Dunn, Griffey, Conine and Freel are going to be on the team.

    Therefore, it's between Hamilton, who has never had an at-bat over A-ball, and Denorfia, who just hit .350 at AAA.
    I still haven't seen where Narron is counting Conine as an outfielder. Narron's quote of "Except Dunn they can all play centerfield" is what makes me believe that he's not counting Conine. And no I don't think he thinks Conine can play centerfield, he's never played a single game there in his career.

  7. #36
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Notes: Hamilton awaits game action

    If Conine can play CF then Dunn can play SS
    Go Gators!

  8. #37
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    Re: Notes: Hamilton awaits game action

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Shines View Post
    I still haven't seen where Narron is counting Conine as an outfielder. Narron's quote of "Except Dunn they can all play centerfield" is what makes me believe that he's not counting Conine. And no I don't think he thinks Conine can play centerfield, he's never played a single game there in his career.
    See Hal's article below. It claims Narron has Conine listed as one of the four.

    Cincinnati Reds manager Jerry Narron says four outfield positions are occupied by Ken Griffey Jr., Adam Dunn, Ryan Freel and Jeff Conine, and that at this moment, he leans toward keeping only five outfielders.

    That leaves Denorfia to argue with Josh Hamilton, Norris Hopper, Bubba Crosby and a few other outsiders for that one spot.

  9. #38
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    Re: Notes: Hamilton awaits game action

    Jeff Conine will be our Opening Day starting RF thanks to Jerry Narron.

    Jerry Narron = the gift that keeps on giving....

  10. #39
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    Re: Notes: Hamilton awaits game action

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Jeff Conine will be our Opening Day starting RF thanks to Jerry Narron.

    Jerry Narron = the gift that keeps on giving....
    We are an injury to Griffey away from seeing just that I expect.

  11. #40
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Notes: Hamilton awaits game action

    Freel is to valuble on the bench to start
    Go Gators!

  12. #41
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    Re: Notes: Hamilton awaits game action

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Freel is to valuble on the bench to start
    Denorfia is too valuable to Louisville to be on the Major League roster.

  13. #42
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    Re: Notes: Hamilton awaits game action

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Freel is to valuble on the bench to start
    Well there is that....and the fact that there are 3 better options in the ouftield than him in Dunn, Denorfia and Griffey.

  14. #43
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    Re: Notes: Hamilton awaits game action

    EDIT : Hey, sorry Krono, I just read the quote from the 3rd page, missed the wink smiley.

    Too valuable for the bench to start?

    Sorry, but that makes NO sense.

    What has Denorfia done in the majors or even minors that has showed that he will be a better player than Freel? Nothing. Freel is a good fielder, great base stealer, and most importantly, he has a good OBP. Not to mention, he is our ONLY lead off option. Who would we lead off? Dunn? Hatteberg? I wouldn't count on a rookie to lead off (Deno).
    Last edited by TeamSelig; 03-01-2007 at 02:42 PM.

  15. #44
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    Re: Notes: Hamilton awaits game action

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamSelig View Post
    What has Denorfia done in the majors or even minors that has showed that he will be a better player than Freel? Nothing. Freel is a good fielder, great base stealer, and most importantly, he has a good OBP. Not to mention, he is our ONLY lead off option. Who would we lead off? Dunn? Hatteberg? I wouldn't count on a rookie to lead off (Deno).
    Well, he has shown that he can stay healthy for an entire season. Freel has never done that. Denorfia in limited time has shown he can hit for a decent average and get on base just as good as Freel. Denorfia is a better fielder. I seriously think this is what Chris Denorfia is: He is Ryan Freel, with more power, a slightly better bat, slightly better defense, can stay healthy and play everyday and without the stolen bases.

  16. #45
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Notes: Hamilton awaits game action

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamSelig View Post
    EDIT : Hey, sorry Krono, I just read the quote from the 3rd page, missed the wink smiley.


    No trouble, I believe I was quoting Dan O when they signed Randa to play 3rd and kept Freel on the bench.
    Go Gators!


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