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Thread: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

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  1. #1
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    I know, I know... it's too early to post this. Problem is, I simply can't resist. The recent turn of events was simply too tempting to speculate about. See if you follow my logic...

    Intrasquad game:

    * Bailey pitches the first game of the season, indicating that either a) the coaches are going in alphabetical order or b) he is the "Josh Hamilton" of the pitching staff (i.e., they really want to see what he can do and whether they can rationalize keeping him on the ML roster).

    * Bailey dominates a line-up of ML hitters for one inning, prompting Adam Dunn and Scott Hatteberg to be "on his bandwagon" (along with the coaches?)

    Today:

    * Lohse, who is supposed to be toning down his arsenal to a simplified fastball-change-up combo, promptly beans his old friend Torii Hunter in the head. This gives Dick Pole and Jerry Narron pause to question whether Kyle "knows how to play the game" and whether he "has what it takes" to man the 4th starter spot.

    * Lohse strains his right hamstring, casting further doubt on whether he will be effective in the near future--and opening the possibility of more starting nods for one... Homer Bailey?

    With this evidence in hand, I ask you all, fellow Reds fans: are you thinking what I'm thinking?

    1 - Harang
    2 - Arroyo
    3 - Milton
    4 - Saarloos
    5 - Bailey
    Last edited by RedEye; 03-03-2007 at 01:21 AM.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  2. #2
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    I think you are reaching at this point. Even if Lohse falls apart, I think Elizardo would also have to fall apart along with Belisle before I honestly think Bailey is going to get the #5 spot.

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I think you are reaching at this point. Even if Lohse falls apart, I think Elizardo would also have to fall apart along with Belisle before I honestly think Bailey is going to get the #5 spot.
    The Lizard needs to have talent to actually fall apart. That kid should be done with the Reds, as far as I'm concerned.

    As for Belisle, they've never given him a legitimate shot in the rotation, so why should that start now?

    As to Lohse "not knowing how to play the game the right way" b/c he beaned Torii Hunter in the head, I would think that's the complete opposite. Far too many pitchers this day and age are afraid to pitch inside and own the inside part of the plate. Hitting batters is just a byproduct of pitching inside.

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    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    As to Lohse "not knowing how to play the game the right way" b/c he beaned Torii Hunter in the head, I would think that's the complete opposite. Far too many pitchers this day and age are afraid to pitch inside and own the inside part of the plate. Hitting batters is just a byproduct of pitching inside.
    I was actually being facetious when I put in that quote. I just enjoy making fun of Narron et al. using the same quote to describe every fricking situation. Seriously though, I don't think beaning Torii Hunter in the first spring training game should qualify as evidence that Lohse knows what he's doing. Frankly, it just strikes me as irresponsible.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Member cacollinsmba's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I was actually being facetious when I put in that quote. I just enjoy making fun of Narron et al. using the same quote to describe every fricking situation. Seriously though, I don't think beaning Torii Hunter in the first spring training game should qualify as evidence that Lohse knows what he's doing. Frankly, it just strikes me as irresponsible.
    Torii's quote:

    "This was my last night game in Fort Myers," Hunter said. "I can't see. There's not enough lighting. It's always been that way. I was waiting on the pitch and then, boom! I've never been hit in the head. I thought the ball was going to break, but it didn't. It just got away from him. It wasn't intentional."

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_y...302109&prov=ap

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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I was actually being facetious when I put in that quote. I just enjoy making fun of Narron et al. using the same quote to describe every fricking situation. Seriously though, I don't think beaning Torii Hunter in the first spring training game should qualify as evidence that Lohse knows what he's doing. Frankly, it just strikes me as irresponsible.
    Ridiculous statement. Pitching inside is part of the game. Occasionally one gets away from you. Irresponsible? Only if intentional, and it wasn't.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
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  7. #7
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC View Post
    Ridiculous statement. Pitching inside is part of the game. Occasionally one gets away from you. Irresponsible? Only if intentional, and it wasn't.
    Yeah, I suppose you are right. It just sucks that it happened in the first week of spring training. Anyway, I'm happy that this thread turned into some kind of productive conversation even it it isn't really about Bailey now.

    I actually saw Elizardo pitch several times in person last year (rare since I don't go to that many live games anymore). Both were during the stretch when he was healthy and pitching well. I must say that he really impressed me, and he had the hitters baffled many times. He also seemed to maintain composure quite well in tough situations... although he gave up quite a few hits each time.

    He seems like the kind of pitcher who might be most effective as a starter since he seems to warm up as he goes along... kind of like Brad Radke (I apologize if that comparison has already been made in this thread... I didn't have time to read the whole thing yet). I don't have any stats to back this up, but anecdotally speaking, he always seems to get into early trouble and then "settle down" by inning three or so if he makes it out.

    Anyway, these are my thoughts...
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  8. #8
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    The Lizard needs to have talent to actually fall apart. That kid should be done with the Reds, as far as I'm concerned.

    As for Belisle, they've never given him a legitimate shot in the rotation, so why should that start now?
    I have to disagree with you Elizardo Ramirez. Is he ever going to be Aaron Harang? No, he isnt. Ramirez is mainly a control guy, but he has very good control, a low 90s fastball and decent offspeed stuff. He can however be a good pitcher to have at the back of the rotation. In todays game, you are probably never going to have 5 starters with ERA's under 4.25..... Its just not going to happen.

    Elizardo month by month

    April
    2 starts (both quality starts)
    13 innings
    9 strikeouts
    1.15 WHIP
    3.46 ERA

    May
    4 starts, 1 relief appearance
    22 innings
    15 strikeouts
    1.59 WHIP
    4.50 ERA

    June
    6 Starts
    37.1 innings
    25 strikeouts
    1.10 WHIP
    4.10 ERA

    July
    4 starts
    23.2 innings
    15 strikeouts
    1.44 WHIP
    4.56 ERA

    Here is where things went wrong for him.

    August

    8 innings
    5 strikeouts
    9 walks
    3.38 WHIP
    19.14 ERA
    He then went on the disabled list with shoulder problems.

    Take out August when he was obviously hurt and what did EZ do last year for the Reds?
    97 innings
    64 strikeouts (5.94/9)
    18 walks (1.67/9)
    1.27 WHIP
    4.17 ERA
    Also that came when the guy was 23 years old. If you cant find the value in that, I dont know what to tell you, but outside of 8 innings in August Elizardo Ramirez was very valuable for this team.

    Now as for Belisle, I think he would get a chance before Bailey simply becuase I think Wayne really wants Homer in Louisville for a little bit this season, which since Belisle is in the discussion as the #5, pushes him ahead of Homer. Just my opinion though, could be totally wrong.

  9. #9
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I have to disagree with you Elizardo Ramirez. Is he ever going to be Aaron Harang? No, he isnt. Ramirez is mainly a control guy, but he has very good control, a low 90s fastball and decent offspeed stuff. He can however be a good pitcher to have at the back of the rotation. In todays game, you are probably never going to have 5 starters with ERA's under 4.25..... Its just not going to happen.

    Elizardo month by month

    April
    2 starts (both quality starts)
    13 innings
    9 strikeouts
    1.15 WHIP
    3.46 ERA

    May
    4 starts, 1 relief appearance
    22 innings
    15 strikeouts
    1.59 WHIP
    4.50 ERA

    June
    6 Starts
    37.1 innings
    25 strikeouts
    1.10 WHIP
    4.10 ERA

    July
    4 starts
    23.2 innings
    15 strikeouts
    1.44 WHIP
    4.56 ERA

    Here is where things went wrong for him.

    August

    8 innings
    5 strikeouts
    9 walks
    3.38 WHIP
    19.14 ERA
    He then went on the disabled list with shoulder problems.

    Take out August when he was obviously hurt and what did EZ do last year for the Reds?
    97 innings
    64 strikeouts (5.94/9)
    18 walks (1.67/9)
    1.27 WHIP
    4.17 ERA
    Also that came when the guy was 23 years old. If you cant find the value in that, I dont know what to tell you, but outside of 8 innings in August Elizardo Ramirez was very valuable for this team.
    Elizardo Ramirez has a laser straight fastball, and minimal movement on his other pitches. He's not a big league pitcher if anything more than a mop up guy, or that last guy out of the bullpen. He just doesn't have major league stuff. Ramirez doesn't have the stamina to be a 5th starter, due to the fact he struggles to regularly go 6 IP. If you're a starter, and you can't easily go 6 IP, then you're not a starter. Work on making yourself a legitimate bullpen threat, and then maybe you'll make the team. The biggest thing he has going against him is his lack of movement, and it's very tough to learn, develop and acquire movement on your pitches. You pretty much either have it, or you don't. Elizardo Ramirez doesn't.

  10. #10
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I think you are reaching at this point. Even if Lohse falls apart, I think Elizardo would also have to fall apart along with Belisle before I honestly think Bailey is going to get the #5 spot.
    Elizardo will be taking Milton's spot and Belisle for Saarloos. It's a win-win-win situation.

  11. #11
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    I wouldn't be surprised if Bailey makes the team. He'll have to be lights out all spring to make it happen though.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

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    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    1.I don't think Bailey dominated; though he did pitch well. I'd like to see Homer pitch about 2 months in AAA, then if he's pitching well, bring him up and bump off whoever is not pitching well in the starting 5 (Milty or Lohse, most probably)

    2.Lohse was just signed to a big contract; he's going to be in the rotation (unless he's moved to the closer's role- which I think he was built for).

    3. I love your enthusiasm, but it is kind of early!

  13. #13
    REDSBROWNSBUCKEYES
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    1.I don't think Bailey dominated; though he did pitch well. I'd like to see Homer pitch about 2 months in AAA, then if he's pitching well, bring him up and bump off whoever is not pitching well in the starting 5 (Milty or Lohse, most probably)

    2.Lohse was just signed to a big contract; he's going to be in the rotation (unless he's moved to the closer's role- which I think he was built for).

    3. I love your enthusiasm, but it is kind of early!
    MY ONLY BEEF IS WHAT IF HE IS NOT PITCHING WELL IN THE MINORS. WOULDN'T THAT BE WORSE FOR HIM CONFIDENCE WISE THAN IF HE STRUGGLED IN THE BIGS? Sorry about the caps

  14. #14
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    3. I love your enthusiasm, but it is kind of early!
    I guess I just want something about this team to be enthusiastic about... and right now I'm liking the idea of having Hamilton and Bailey to root for. Watch for the sequel to this post, coming soon to a forum near you:

    Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Conine's loss = Hamilton's gain?)

    Anyway, thanks for putting up with me. Who wants some popcorn?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  15. #15
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    2.Lohse was just signed to a big contract; he's going to be in the rotation (unless he's moved to the closer's role- which I think he was built for).
    I guess the question is whether or not the contract is so big that Lohse falls under the Eric Milton clause of "start unless you body gives out" or whether he is just assured of a significant pitching role of some sort (long relief stopper? closer, as you say?) Of course, I suppose if he is relegated to the bullpen, Lohse might throw a tantrum like he did in Minnesota... unsuspecting batters beware!
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013


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