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Thread: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

  1. #16
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    We need more pitchers willing to go inside and brush somebody back on occassion. The more-or-less emasculated dozen or so hurlers we've had the past few years has been maddening.
    I think the real problem is less a lack of pitchers with the ability to pitch inside but, rather, a lack of pitchers with the ability to pitch over the outside and middle as well.
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  3. #17
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Wasn't it in June when Elizardo had that amazing 11 strike out game against the Indians I believe? He was overpowering them with his curveball and excellent command of both his change and fastball.

    That game struck me as the telling factor of what Easy E could be, a very good controll pitcher at age 23. Do we forget he's still young? He's probably going to be a decent 4, passable 3 before the end of this career.
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  4. #18
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I have to disagree with you Elizardo Ramirez. Is he ever going to be Aaron Harang? No, he isnt. Ramirez is mainly a control guy, but he has very good control, a low 90s fastball and decent offspeed stuff. He can however be a good pitcher to have at the back of the rotation. In todays game, you are probably never going to have 5 starters with ERA's under 4.25..... Its just not going to happen.

    Elizardo month by month

    April
    2 starts (both quality starts)
    13 innings
    9 strikeouts
    1.15 WHIP
    3.46 ERA

    May
    4 starts, 1 relief appearance
    22 innings
    15 strikeouts
    1.59 WHIP
    4.50 ERA

    June
    6 Starts
    37.1 innings
    25 strikeouts
    1.10 WHIP
    4.10 ERA

    July
    4 starts
    23.2 innings
    15 strikeouts
    1.44 WHIP
    4.56 ERA

    Here is where things went wrong for him.

    August

    8 innings
    5 strikeouts
    9 walks
    3.38 WHIP
    19.14 ERA
    He then went on the disabled list with shoulder problems.

    Take out August when he was obviously hurt and what did EZ do last year for the Reds?
    97 innings
    64 strikeouts (5.94/9)
    18 walks (1.67/9)
    1.27 WHIP
    4.17 ERA
    Also that came when the guy was 23 years old. If you cant find the value in that, I dont know what to tell you, but outside of 8 innings in August Elizardo Ramirez was very valuable for this team.
    Elizardo Ramirez has a laser straight fastball, and minimal movement on his other pitches. He's not a big league pitcher if anything more than a mop up guy, or that last guy out of the bullpen. He just doesn't have major league stuff. Ramirez doesn't have the stamina to be a 5th starter, due to the fact he struggles to regularly go 6 IP. If you're a starter, and you can't easily go 6 IP, then you're not a starter. Work on making yourself a legitimate bullpen threat, and then maybe you'll make the team. The biggest thing he has going against him is his lack of movement, and it's very tough to learn, develop and acquire movement on your pitches. You pretty much either have it, or you don't. Elizardo Ramirez doesn't.

  5. #19
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    When he is good, he has to be absolutely perfect. When you are that straight at this level, you can't miss location, at all.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
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  6. #20
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodave View Post
    Wasn't it in June when Elizardo had that amazing 11 strike out game against the Indians I believe? He was overpowering them with his curveball and excellent command of both his change and fastball.
    It was a June game, but it was against the Brewers at GABP.

    * June 14, 2006
    > Ramirez: 8IP, 5H, 0ER, 10K, 1BB.

    Unfortunately he didn't get a win. The score was 0-0 until Adam Dunn hit a 3R walkoff HR in the 11th w/ 1 out off of Dan Kolb. IIRC Dunn sprinted around the bases so no one would accuse him of being lazy!

    Ramirez did beat the Indians (and Jeremy Sowers) on June 25 (REDS 4 - Indians 2). 6.2IP, 7H, 2ER.
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  7. #21
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    For as straight as his fastball was, he performed fairly well for all of 97 innings last season....

  8. #22
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    I'd rather have Bailey replace Eric Milton not Kyle Loshe.

  9. #23
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket_Fuel View Post
    I'd rather have Bailey replace Eric Milton not Kyle Loshe.
    i'd rather have Milton replace Cormier. Milton was effectiveish last year for his first 40ish pitches...if he has anything resembling the mentality, he might be what the Reds need in the closer role.

    a bit too many 'ishes', but to start the year, why not?
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  10. #24
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I think you are reaching at this point. Even if Lohse falls apart, I think Elizardo would also have to fall apart along with Belisle before I honestly think Bailey is going to get the #5 spot.
    Elizardo will be taking Milton's spot and Belisle for Saarloos. It's a win-win-win situation.

  11. #25
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    I don't think there is any way Lohse isn't No. 3 in the rotation come opening day given that A) Krivsky knows him from his days in Minnesota B) WK traded for him kept him this offseason and C) Lohse did decent after coming over. A couple of shaky spring training starts aren't going to bump him even for someone like Bailey.

    (Besides he drilled his ex-teammate in the head the first time he faced him!! (in the first freaking inning no less!) I'm putting him at No. 1 on my list of guys most likely to re-enact the Wilson-Farnsworth fight this season.)
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  12. #26
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    My preference would be to find a GM who likes Ramirez more than me and as much as some others around here and turn him into something useful before he takes the mound this year and proves me right.

  13. #27
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (Lohse's loss = Bailey's gain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC View Post
    Ridiculous statement. Pitching inside is part of the game. Occasionally one gets away from you. Irresponsible? Only if intentional, and it wasn't.
    Yeah, I suppose you are right. It just sucks that it happened in the first week of spring training. Anyway, I'm happy that this thread turned into some kind of productive conversation even it it isn't really about Bailey now.

    I actually saw Elizardo pitch several times in person last year (rare since I don't go to that many live games anymore). Both were during the stretch when he was healthy and pitching well. I must say that he really impressed me, and he had the hitters baffled many times. He also seemed to maintain composure quite well in tough situations... although he gave up quite a few hits each time.

    He seems like the kind of pitcher who might be most effective as a starter since he seems to warm up as he goes along... kind of like Brad Radke (I apologize if that comparison has already been made in this thread... I didn't have time to read the whole thing yet). I don't have any stats to back this up, but anecdotally speaking, he always seems to get into early trouble and then "settle down" by inning three or so if he makes it out.

    Anyway, these are my thoughts...
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013


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