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Thread: Has WayneK pulled another rabbit out of the hat

  1. #31
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    Re: Has WayneK pulled another rabbit out of the hat

    Well if Marty and Brantley (he's brutal..have you seen him?) say good things about somebody, then it must be true!! Ugh.

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  3. #32
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Has WayneK pulled another rabbit out of the hat

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    THere are lots of very productive LH starters who's fastball tops out in this range.

    Now, whether Livingston is one of them is another matter entirely.
    I am having trouble thinking of any of them not named Jaime Moyer. Not saying you are lying, but who are you referring to?

  4. #33
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    Re: Has WayneK pulled another rabbit out of the hat

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I disagree with mth on Saarloos. I don't know what it is, but I have a strong feeling that Kirk Saarloos is going to have a good 2007 season with the Reds. There is just something I like about the guy. His movement on his pitches is very good, which is always a good thing. You mentioned his movement as a downside because he only throws 88, but Arroyo doesn't throw much harder than that and he was able to succeed last season.

    I just think with the addition of Gonzalez at SS and Encarnacion at 3B and Phillips at 2B, opposing teams are going to have a hard time pounding groundballs through the Reds infield. You add in the league change and the weaker lineups in the NL and I think that's a recipe for success. I'm not saying Saarloos is gonna win the Cy Young or anything but 170 innings of 4.25 ERA ball is not out of the question. I don't know about you but I would gladly take that out of my fifth starter.
    I think sometimes people get caught up into speed numbers and forget some guys just know how to pitch. Saarlos is not being asked to be a star at all really. I also think he can be a serviceable starter.
    2006 Redzone mock Draftee's- 1(st) Daniel Bard(redsox), 1(st sup)( Jordan Walden (Angels), 2(nd) rd.- Zach Britton(Orioles), 3(rd) Blair Erickson(Cardinals), 3(rd) Tim Norton( Yankees),(cuz its a Tim Hortons thing

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  5. #34
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    Re: Has WayneK pulled another rabbit out of the hat

    [QUOTE=RFS62;1255003]Yep. He's a compelling story, right out of Hollywood if it goes best case scenario.

    But we're a long way from that point. It sure is fun to watch.

    Thank God they're playing games again.



    Hamilton's hitting some actual advanced pitching. I truly believe he is going to make the roster as the 5th outfielder due to the fact he will not be exposed to be sent back to Tampa. best case scenario is he gets maybe 125 at bats and lots of instruction and late game action in blow outs. I personally am comfortable with that . It is a gamble sure but hey the Kid has a ton of talent and so far it is just an awesome feel good story.
    2006 Redzone mock Draftee's- 1(st) Daniel Bard(redsox), 1(st sup)( Jordan Walden (Angels), 2(nd) rd.- Zach Britton(Orioles), 3(rd) Blair Erickson(Cardinals), 3(rd) Tim Norton( Yankees),(cuz its a Tim Hortons thing

    Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever.

  6. #35
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Has WayneK pulled another rabbit out of the hat

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I disagree with mth on Saarloos. I don't know what it is, but I have a strong feeling that Kirk Saarloos is going to have a good 2007 season with the Reds. There is just something I like about the guy. His movement on his pitches is very good, which is always a good thing. You mentioned his movement as a downside because he only throws 88, but Arroyo doesn't throw much harder than that and he was able to succeed last season.

    I just think with the addition of Gonzalez at SS and Encarnacion at 3B and Phillips at 2B, opposing teams are going to have a hard time pounding groundballs through the Reds infield. You add in the league change and the weaker lineups in the NL and I think that's a recipe for success. I'm not saying Saarloos is gonna win the Cy Young or anything but 170 innings of 4.25 ERA ball is not out of the question. I don't know about you but I would gladly take that out of my fifth starter.

    Don't get me wrong. Movement is a good thing, but only if it is in the strike zone. Some guys can get away with things moving out of the zone, but those are usually real hard throwers who don't give hitters enough time to react.

    If Saarloos can throw strikes and not fall behind in the count, he can be OK. You are right about the league change, that could provide a real bump for him in 2007.

  7. #36
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    Re: Has WayneK pulled another rabbit out of the hat

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am having trouble thinking of any of them not named Jaime Moyer. Not saying you are lying, but who are you referring to?
    Off the top of my head, there are several who don't throw particularly hard yet have been successful. These guys are not all lefties, though.

    Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Tim Wakefield, Paul Byrd, Woody Williams, Trevor Hoffman, Chris Capuano, Mike Maroth, Livan Hernandez, Orlando Hernandez, Doug Davis... and I'm sure there are more.
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  8. #37
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Has WayneK pulled another rabbit out of the hat

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball View Post
    Off the top of my head, there are several who don't throw particularly hard yet have been successful. These guys are not all lefties, though.

    Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Tim Wakefield, Paul Byrd, Woody Williams, Trevor Hoffman, Chris Capuano, Mike Maroth, Livan Hernandez, Orlando Hernandez, Doug Davis... and I'm sure there are more.
    Greg Maddux could hit 95 in his prime.
    Glavine at least throws in the high 80s.
    Wakefield is a knuckleballer....
    Hoffman also could hit 95 in his prime.
    Williams throws in the low 90s.
    Byrd is a good example of someone who throws in the mid 80s consistantly.
    Capuano tops out at about 90.
    Maroth is another good example.
    Livan is also a good example.
    Orlando hits 90 at times.
    Doug Davis sits about 84-86 like Livingston does.

    I guess what I am looking at is the number of guys who throw their fastballs in the mid 80s have very little chance to be successful. I am not going to hold my breath on Livingston.

  9. #38
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    Re: Has WayneK pulled another rabbit out of the hat

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I have to chime in on Livingston....the guy makes Joe Mays look like a fireballer. He tops out at about 86 MPH. I just cant see him being a very productive MLB pitcher when he cant even get to the high 80s with his fastball.
    Very well put.

    There's a reason we picked him up for essentially nothing. More dumpster diving by Krivsky.

  10. #39
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Has WayneK pulled another rabbit out of the hat

    If Josh Hamilton pans out, and becomes a big time player (down the road)...could turn out to be the biggest steal in KrivDogg's career.

  11. #40
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    Re: Has WayneK pulled another rabbit out of the hat

    Judging by what I have read on alot of sites.

    Everyone is comparing Livingston to Moyer. There is also one thing that strikes me as very good about Livingston. His interviews before his call up last year he mentioned he knew was never going to be a flamethrower, so instead he focused time on the mound to ADJUST to the hitters he was facing. He started learning where to throw to get them out.

    Too me that's an intanigable that is really going to help him in the national league. If Livian or Doug can have a succesfull career, and live in that number 3-5 slot in a rotation, than I am positive that Livingston can. Plus, Livingston is 23/24.


    I dont see why everyone is complaining, he once again is a cheap innings eater, even if he is league average.
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  12. #41
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Has WayneK pulled another rabbit out of the hat

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodave View Post
    I dont see why everyone is complaining, he once again is a cheap innings eater, even if he is league average.

    If he was league average everyone would love him. The problem is, Livingston does not project to be league average. If he did, he wouldn't have been available on waivers.

  13. #42
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    Re: Has WayneK pulled another rabbit out of the hat

    Heres the article.



    That was enough to make me go "sounds good to me"
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  14. #43
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    Re: Has WayneK pulled another rabbit out of the hat

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodave View Post
    Judging by what I have read on alot of sites.

    Everyone is comparing Livingston to Moyer. There is also one thing that strikes me as very good about Livingston. His interviews before his call up last year he mentioned he knew was never going to be a flamethrower, so instead he focused time on the mound to ADJUST to the hitters he was facing. He started learning where to throw to get them out.

    Too me that's an intanigable that is really going to help him in the national league. If Livian or Doug can have a succesfull career, and live in that number 3-5 slot in a rotation, than I am positive that Livingston can. Plus, Livingston is 23/24.


    I dont see why everyone is complaining, he once again is a cheap innings eater, even if he is league average.
    Livingston = Chris Michalak version 2007

  15. #44
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    Re: Has WayneK pulled another rabbit out of the hat

    Quote Originally Posted by jmac View Post
    What has impressed me most on Hamilton is ...he is doing alot of this against lefties.
    As far as Livingston...they were telling his minor league stats today and as they said, it's hard to figure a team letting him get away.
    It was a given at the time that the Mariner's were nuts, but this is probably the last year for the M's G.M. after doing so many stupid things.

    He's desperate right now. I'd try to make a deal with the M's and see what we could pluck from the organization.
    Last edited by Eric_Davis; 03-04-2007 at 04:15 PM.
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  16. #45
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    Re: Has WayneK pulled another rabbit out of the hat

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns View Post
    If he was league average everyone would love him. The problem is, Livingston does not project to be league average. If he did, he wouldn't have been available on waivers.
    I think you are forgetting the Devil Rays got him then traded him to Philly.
    Wayne say the error and claimed him for the Reds.

    Thats how we got Bobby. So atleast one other team did want him, Philly. Who by the way, HAS Jamie Moyer. Think letting that rub off on a younger version was their idea?

    No wait, can't be...because Bobby sucks already.
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled."
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