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Thread: Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

  1. #61
    Member hebroncougar's Avatar
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    Re: Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    There is no excuse, no excuse whatsoever, for a new MLB stadium to sit around half empty when the home team is in a pennant chase and also when ownership slashes ticket prices in half. That was absolutely absurd what happened last season, and unfortunately it's nothing new here in Cincinnati.

    Go back to 1999. On August 16th, the Reds were tied with the Houston Astros for the NL Central lead as they welcomed in the Pirates for a four game series. It's mid August, the team is tied for first in the division and also right in the thick of the NL Wildcard race. And how did the fans respond? Not one of those four games saw 20k fans walk through the gates. Not a single game during that series. In fact, until the final four regular season home games against St. Louis, the Reds couldn't even average 25k per game during those final two months.

    That's flat out ridiculous, and what we saw in 2006 was just a mirror of what we saw in 1999 with the fans' response toward the team actually being in a pennant race.
    Sorry, but we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not making excuses, I'm stating facts. Alot of fans don't trust Reds ownership. Heck, I could also point out the fact that the fans wanted the park to be on Broadway Commons (and mind you the fans paid for the stadium for God's sake), but what did ownership bully their way to??? A ballpark on the riverfront. I don't think Reds average attendance was poor at all last year when you look at their overall record since 2000. Fans don't come out in droves in the middle of a good year, they generally will reward a team the next season. And if you want to point things out, maybe the fans were smarter than we are giving them credit for, how good were the Reds really last year??? Especially after the trade they made midseason.

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  3. #62
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    Sorry, but we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not making excuses, I'm stating facts. Alot of fans don't trust Reds ownership. Heck, I could also point out the fact that the fans wanted the park to be on Broadway Commons (and mind you the fans paid for the stadium for God's sake), but what did ownership bully their way to??? A ballpark on the riverfront. I don't think Reds average attendance was poor at all last year when you look at their overall record since 2000. Fans don't come out in droves in the middle of a good year, they generally will reward a team the next season. And if you want to point things out, maybe the fans were smarter than we are giving them credit for, how good were the Reds really last year??? Especially after the trade they made midseason.

    I thought the location of th stadium was up for vote and broadway commons got shut down?

    On Nov. 3, 1998, voters defeated a ballot issue that would have forced the county to build the new park in Over-the-Rhine.

    http://www.cincinnati.com/local/down...ART_Other.html
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  4. #63
    Member hebroncougar's Avatar
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    Re: Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I thought the location of th stadium was up for vote and broadway commons got shut down?

    On Nov. 3, 1998, voters defeated a ballot issue that would have forced the county to build the new park in Over-the-Rhine.

    http://www.cincinnati.com/local/down...ART_Other.html

    You may be right, I can just remember what seemed like a large push for the park on Broadway Commons, and ownership wanted the riverfront spot due to the value of the land.

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    Re: Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    You may be right, I can just remember what seemed like a large push for the park on Broadway Commons, and ownership wanted the riverfront spot due to the value of the land.
    I'm sure there were a lot of people who would have preferred the other location.

    And I'm sure there are a lot of people that would have been afraid to go there.
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  6. #65
    Member hebroncougar's Avatar
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    Re: Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I'm sure there were a lot of people who would have preferred the other location.

    And I'm sure there are a lot of people that would have been afraid to go there.
    Kind of like now? Where in downtown Cincinnati would there be where you could hang around the ballpark before or after the game?
    Last edited by hebroncougar; 03-07-2007 at 08:48 PM.

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    Member cacollinsmba's Avatar
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    Re: Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I'm sure there were a lot of people who would have preferred the other location.

    And I'm sure there are a lot of people that would have been afraid to go there.
    Camden Yards in Baltimore was widely touted as the model for the Broadway location. However, talk to anyone from Baltimore and they will tell you that even today, they won't hang out after the game around Camden because the surrounding neighborhood is still a bad area.

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    Re: Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    Dan Kearns that is (Austin's father)

    Washington Post


    "I'm telling you, those Nationals fans made a difference for him," Dan Kearns said. "They talk about Cincinnati being a great baseball town, but they look for you to strike out so they can boo. Here they were, Washington, in last place, and they cheered everything."
    BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

  9. #68
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    Re: Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I'm sure there were a lot of people who would have preferred the other location.

    And I'm sure there are a lot of people that would have been afraid to go there.
    http://www.citybeat.com/archives/199...422/index.html

    Frankly Speaking, the Reds Want No Part of Broadway Commons

    John Allen, managing executive of the Cincinnati Reds, was invited to appear on WNKU's March 26 Speaking Frankly program to discuss the team's upcoming season. Frankly, most of the callers wanted to talk about the Reds' position on Broadway Commons. And, frankly, Allen didn't.

    Allen explained that the team has been negotiating with county officials for a new stadium at the foot of Main Street bounded by Fort Washington Way, The Crown and Cinergy Field, known as "the Wedge." He said he was "cautiously optimistic" that an agreement of understanding could be worked out in the near future that would set in motion more detailed studies of the Wedge site.

    When asked by a caller what his main objections to Broadway Commons were, Allen said the site was too costly -- land needed to be acquired, underground sewer lines rerouted and parking garages built -- and there were no hotels nearby. He also felt the Reds would be unfairly counted on as the catalyst of a neighborhood renaissance in nearby Over-the-Rhine.

    "If we were to go (to Broadway Commons), we're being asked to be the economic cornerstone for development of an area that needs economic development," Allen said. "No one has a game plan or economic plan for Broadway Commons."

    The caller then asked if Allen would be open to Broadway Commons if all of his cost concerns were addressed and covered by the county and/or city. Allen said no.

    Another caller pressed the issue, saying that he and his fellow twentysomethings like to go to bars and restaurants before and after baseball games and that Over-the-Rhine's Main Street district offered the kind of attractions he wanted around a stadium site. Allen responded that he saw bars and restaurants as the Reds' competition.

    "What do I survive off of?," Allen asked. "Beverage and food sales (inside the stadium)."

    Answering another caller's question about whether the Reds felt any obligation to help promote downtown redevelopment because they were using public funds for their stadium, Allen obviously was growing impatient with the topic.

    "What the Cincinnati Reds bring to this community far outweighs the sales tax that was passed in terms of economic benefit to the city...," he said. "We provide a tremendous amount to the city and the county just by existing and being here."

    When the next caller asked that, if bars and restaurants were the Reds' competition, what then was planned for the entertainment district around the Wedge site, Allen said enough was enough.

    "This is not a Broadway Commons argument," he said, disregarding the question. "We've been through all that. We're headed in all likelihood for baseball on Main Street, and I don't have any more to comment on that. I don't know what else we can say."

    After a break, Allen went on to discuss Barry Larkin's injury problems, the Reds' upcoming promotional events and his own future with the team.

    The irony in Allen's remarks, of course, is that we haven't "been through all that." There has been no credible public debate over the issue of stadium sites. None whatsoever.

    Many recall the infamous meeting at the Albert B. Sabin Convention Center in November 1996 -- the last public meeting held to address stadium development -- when an official of county consultant Urban Design Associates declared that he saw no consensus on stadium sites. Of course, the vast majority of meeting attendees had expressed support for Broadway Commons. Since that meeting, for the last year and a half, the strategy employed by Reds stadium negotiators -- team officials, county officials and business leaders -- has been to avoid public input and dismiss any public opinion that arises while simultaneously claiming to be representing the people's best interests.

    Reflecting on this dismissal of public input, Cincinnati City Councilman Todd Portune said the whole process of stadium siting has disgusted him.

    "It's a classic example of the arrogance of placing personal interests ahead of the will and the interests of the public," Portune told CityBeat. "Not a single credible organization or urban planner has endorsed a river site for the Reds."

    Allen's appearance on Speaking Frankly seemed to perfectly sum up the arrogance of power described by Portune: Shut up and leave us alone. We know what we're doing.

  10. #69
    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Re: Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by cacollinsmba View Post
    Well, the Nats are pretty representative of our Congress.

    - They're about half red, half blue.
    - They aren't very good at what they do.
    - Some of them like to blame other people for their problems.
    - They make a lot of money to not perform well.
    - They spend more time on vacation than they do actually doing their job.
    - The spend half of their working time out of town.
    - Turnover of the roster probably won't help much anytime soon.

    The main difference I see is that Congress has yet to demand a new stadium to increase revenues.
    Excellent!

  11. #70
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    Re: Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    Sorry, but we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not making excuses, I'm stating facts. Alot of fans don't trust Reds ownership. Heck, I could also point out the fact that the fans wanted the park to be on Broadway Commons (and mind you the fans paid for the stadium for God's sake), but what did ownership bully their way to??? A ballpark on the riverfront. I don't think Reds average attendance was poor at all last year when you look at their overall record since 2000. Fans don't come out in droves in the middle of a good year, they generally will reward a team the next season. And if you want to point things out, maybe the fans were smarter than we are giving them credit for, how good were the Reds really last year??? Especially after the trade they made midseason.
    I can tell that you're new around here.

    Stick around, and I guarantee you'll realize that I'm no big fan of incompetent baseball decisions. The Reds have made a gigantic array of idiotic baseball decisions over the past few years, and that's being kind with that statement. Like VP stated, the Reds organization deserves some blame for this.

    But in no way, shape or fashion are the fans blameless for not showing up at the park. They are fair-weather fans at heart who drown themselves in nostalgia, and until that mindset changes, Cincinnati won't be anything like the current "baseball town" that people seem to believe it is. That may be harsh, but it's also reality.

    The Reds averaged a little more than 26k per game, and while you don't think it's poor, the fact remains that they ranked 12th in the NL in attendance with 6k fewer fans than the average NL attendance of 32k+ per game. That's a half million fewer fans per year than simply the league average. Take out the Marlins 14k average, and the other 15 NL teams averaged over 33k per game. The Reds had 7k fewer fans per game than the collective average of every NL team sans Florida.

    I know attendance spikes often occur the following season. However, toss in that several end of season games were half price ticket games, and those 2006 attendance figures are far from acceptable for a contending team playing in a four year old stadium.

    Here's an interesting question: Do you think the Reds will have league average attendance figures (i.e. ~32k per game) in 2007?

    I know my answer to that question.
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  12. #71
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

    Another caller pressed the issue, saying that he and his fellow twentysomethings like to go to bars and restaurants before and after baseball games and that Over-the-Rhine's Main Street district offered the kind of attractions he wanted around a stadium site. Allen responded that he saw bars and restaurants as the Reds' competition. - John Allen

    That is a very short sighted view IMO. I'm not surprised though.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  13. #72
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    Re: Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post

    Here's an interesting question: Do you think the Reds will have league average attendance figures (i.e. ~32k per game) in 2007?

    I know my answer to that question.
    32k? No........my guess would be in the 28.5k range. Hard to tell too........with most of the games on TV for the first time in a long time.

  14. #73
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    Another caller pressed the issue, saying that he and his fellow twentysomethings like to go to bars and restaurants before and after baseball games and that Over-the-Rhine's Main Street district offered the kind of attractions he wanted around a stadium site. Allen responded that he saw bars and restaurants as the Reds' competition. - John Allen
    Yes John, that's why the Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs and Red Sox do so well in attendance. There's nothing else to do in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago or Boston but go to a baseball game.

    Those old clubs on Main Street where people went to dance and troll for mates at midnight would be a huge competition problem for people who want to watch sports at 7 pm
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  15. #74
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    Another caller pressed the issue, saying that he and his fellow twentysomethings like to go to bars and restaurants before and after baseball games and that Over-the-Rhine's Main Street district offered the kind of attractions he wanted around a stadium site. Allen responded that he saw bars and restaurants as the Reds' competition. - John Allen

    That is a very short sighted view IMO. I'm not surprised though.
    Oh dear god. What an idiotic comment. I wasn't a fan of the broadway commons location, but what a dumb thing to say.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  16. #75
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    Yes John, that's why the Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs and Red Sox do so well in attendance. There's nothing else to do in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago or Boston but go to a baseball game.

    Those old clubs on Main Street where people went to dance and troll for mates at midnight would be a huge competition problem for people who want to watch sports at 7 pm
    So, vp, what you're saying is that maybe John Allen is past his prime??

    Because that's exactly what is wrong with the way the Reds are marketed around here- too many old men doing the same old thing they've always done.

    Fact is, in the early 70's, all you needed to do was field a winner. None of us knew any better!! These days you need to start there, with a competitive team, but then you need all the entertainment to go along with it- places to meet before and after the game.

    Now, I'm a child of the early 70's, so I understand the way it was. But I also have three teenaged daughters so I also understand modern day marketing (and especially the effects it has on young women.)

    My girls love to go to the games with me, and they love Reds baseball. But they love the whole experience, not just the ballgame. That's just how it is today.

    BUT, you have to START with good baseball, because Dad's not gonna go and spring for the tickets if there is not good baseball to watch. The rest is just icing on the cake for me.


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