Kearns rips Cincinnati fans...

[Always Red]

Have you noticed the murder rates in the City latley? How in the world is avoiding an area where crime is spirling out of controll, where the mayor makes fighting crime his top priority, "irrational"?

Let's see, go to Kings Island where (1) I'll have lots more fun (2) be entertained all day long (3) while there's a chance I could die in a freak accident I'm likely not to get shot, stabbed, mugged or raped.........or go to a Reds game? Hummmmm.

While I agree 100% that this isn't a baseball town, and the geographical makeup of the city plays a role, I think it's only normal for the fanbase to be fickle when the team stinks for so long and the city surrounding the stadium is a crime ridden mess.

I wonder if anybody has ever studied if there is any correlation between a solid public transportation system in a metro area and the effects on the attendence of major leage sports venues.

I see your point, but go back and recheck your stats, Abner, dig a little deeper.

99% of all "suburban" folks who are victimized in any way near the downtown area, or OTR, have wandered into the area in search of illegal drugs. Yes, the occasional purse-snatching happens, but heck, I read about that stuff happening at Eastgate Mall all of the time, too.

Ask any Cincinnati cop. He or she will tell you the same thing. Go to a Reds game, Bengals game, concert, Aronoff, etc, and you're fine, no problems. Even Music Hall. The West End is downright gentrified these days, have you seen all the new, high-end construction?

If you don't want to go down the slippery slope....don't go where it's slippery.

The problem is drugs, specifically. If you go into OTR looking for drugs, you may wind up mugged, raped or dead.

I park just to the west of the Freedom Center for Reds games. I have never once felt threatened or uncomfortable going to or from a Reds game.

Do you feel unsafe there?

[hebroncougar]

The "no baseball town" argument is intriguing, especially after checking out attendance figures on baseballreference. That argument actually has a lot of credibility.

[Ltlabner]

I see your point, but go back and recheck your stats, Abner, dig a little deeper.

I park just to the west of the Freedom Center for Reds games. I have never once felt threatened or uncomfortable going to or from a Reds game.

Do you feel unsafe there?

Actually, that's where my father and I park also. Yes, I feal safe there.

You've dug too deep. Go to your local mall and do a survey asking people if they feal downtown Cincy is a 'safe' place. I'd be willing to bet a lot of ice cream sundees that the majority of people will say "unsafe". It's people's perceptions that matter, not the underlying components that make up the total crime statistics. And the cold reality is that many, many, many people deam downtown to be unsafe. Until you change that perception, all the talk of the west end being a wonderfull place, and you woln't be killed if you aren't looking for crack, will fall on deaf ears.

BTW - I agree that when you peal away the layers of the onion that is crime in Cincy that drugs, and specific neighborhoods are at the root of the vast majority of crime. But we aren't talking about understanding crime on a micro level, we're talking about the macro level of "do you feal safe in downtown Cincy" and how that effects attendence at GABP.

[Always Red]

^ I totally agree with you, lilAbner- perception becomes reality for some folks.

I like the turn that this thread has taken, even though it's somewhat off topic. I'm a baseball nut, as most of us here are, and I also agree that Cincinnati is not a baseball town any longer. Not sure how you would define that anyway, but by most definitions I can think of, I don't think it is. Not enough folks go to the games, and not enough folks know enough about the game. As was pointed out above, the Reds were in the thick of the race last year, Castellini was giving tickets away, and folks still would simply not come.

But to be fair (speaking of knowledge of the game), most people do get much of their info on many topics from the talking heads in the media, which of course, keep us woefully uninformed about the truth of things.

You just have to dig a little deeper, do a little of your own research, to find out the truth on most issues.

If all one uses to garner information is the TV and radio, one would wind up with a very superficial knowledge base about a lot of things. Including baseball.

ok, off my soapbox now!!

[Yachtzee]

I think the nature of the Cincinnati fan base changed after the 1994 strike. The Reds lost some long-time fans with that strike. I know some who have forgiven Mike Brown for all those years of losing with the Bengals, but still won't forgive the players and the owners for the '94 strike. I think that strike hit a lot of small market teams much harder than it did the big market teams. They have larger populations from which to replace the lost fans who gave up on baseball after the strike. Over a decade has past since the strike, so the younger folks probably don't remember much about it. However, there's also no memory of the BRM and the '90 World Champions. So I think they need to reach out to those younger fans. I don't think relying on the memory of the BRM and the '90 team is going to do it for them.

I have also noticed the fickle nature of Cincinnatians when it comes to sports. They'll come out to see a winner, if you can prove you're actually a winner. But if you're not a winner, people would rather stay home and just complain about the team all the time. There definitely seems to be a large degree of pessimism among the people on the southern side of the state.

[big boy]

There is no excuse, no excuse whatsoever, for a new MLB stadium to sit around half empty when the home team is in a pennant chase and also when ownership slashes ticket prices in half. That was absolutely absurd what happened last season, and unfortunately it's nothing new here in Cincinnati.

I am pretty sure I read here that the attendance problems are due to the voice of the Reds "telling it like it is".

[Yachtzee]

I am pretty sure I read here that the attendance problems are due to the voice of the Reds "telling it like it is".

It's not the only reason, or even the biggest reason, but it sure doesn't help matters.

[M2]

Well if we can avoid being anything like the city of Boston than it's fine by me.

Yeah, it's hell on earth here. High crime, low standard of living, no jobs, complete lack of entertainment options and social institutions.

From reading the posts here and others over the years, it sounds like part of the problem is that suburban Cincinnati fans are lukewarm about the city itself. Try to bust on Boston all you want, but folks around here do all they can to get into the city. It's a nice place to live too. I can walk from where I live (western outskirts of the city) for miles down to the waterfront with my wife and kids and never have a thought about being in a dangerous situation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like Cincinnati could use a healthy dose of that.

And I remember the days of dark, dank Fenway in the late 80's and early 90's. You'd know better than me though about that. Were they just in a little "baseball town" funk?

Strange "dark" days. The Sox won three divisions from 1986-1990. They had that mini swoon from 1992-94, but they drew 2.4 million in '92 and '93, more than they did 1986 when they won the division (hard to compare 1994 because of the strike). In other words, even when the team wasn't so hot, they were banging out the park.

Unlike you, I used to go Fenway back then. It was still a tough ticket even when the team was out of contention. Even during that swoon, in a small ballpark they were outdrawing the Reds during one of the strongest attendance periods in Reds history.

I suggest there are no "baseball towns". Baseball is just another entertainment option and management better not take anyone for granted.

I agree with the second part, but people where I live are baseball crazy and have been since 1967. The John Harrington regime did take fans for granted, no one was disuaded. I was goofing on you a bit in my last response, but living where I do you'd have little town that there is such a thing as a baseball town.

Alot of people on this site blame the management for everything and mostly rightfully so, then you wonder why fans have turned off of the game. It's not really that crazy to me. The Reds haven't consistently won or cared about their fans in years and I don't blame people for not coming back. Maybe this not being a baseball town is a reasonable decision.

Perhaps it is. In the wake of Marge's racism and Lindner/Allen's incompetence, fans certainly had plenty of reason to turn away.

[westofyou]

The "no baseball town" argument is intriguing, especially after checking out attendance figures on baseballreference. That argument actually has a lot of credibility.

There is a long history of non caring fans and bluster to the contrary.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36856

[hebroncougar]

Yeah, it's hell on earth here. High crime, low standard of living, no jobs, complete lack of entertainment options and social institutions.



Strange "dark" days. The Sox won three divisions from 1986-1990. They had that mini swoon from 1992-94, but they drew 2.4 million in '92 and '93, more than they did 1986 when they won the division (hard to compare 1994 because of the strike). In other words, even when the team wasn't so hot, they were banging out the park.

Unlike you, I used to go Fenway back then. It was still a tough ticket even when the team was out of contention. Even during that swoon, in a small ballpark they were outdrawing the Reds during one of the strongest attendance periods in Reds history.



I agree with the second part, but people where I live are baseball crazy and have been since 1967. The John Harrington regime did take fans for granted, no one was disuaded. I was goofing on you a bit in my last response, but living where I do you'd have little town that there is such a thing as a baseball town.



Perhaps it is. In the wake of Marge's racism and Lindner/Allen's incompetence, fans certainly had plenty of reason to turn away.

Comparing Reds attendance figures to Boston, NY, or Chicago is way beyond apples to oranges. People will go there for the experience of being in Yankee Stadium, Fenway, or Wrigley IMO.

[westofyou]

But we aren't talking about understanding crime on a micro level, we're talking about the macro level of "do you feal safe in downtown Cincy" and how that effects attendence at GABP.

I feel safe down there, but then again I've lived in real live working cities most of my life.

[Johnny Footstool]

This is a baseball history town, but not a baseball town.

Quoted again for truth's sake.

Someone should put this on a "Welcome to Cincinnati" sign.

[Yachtzee]

Quoted again for truth's sake.

Someone should put this on a "Welcome to Cincinnati" sign.

"Home of the First Professional Baseball Team and Opening Day, and we'll never let you forget it."

[M2]

Comparing Reds attendance figures to Boston, NY, or Chicago is way beyond apples to oranges. People will go there for the experience of being in Yankee Stadium, Fenway, or Wrigley IMO.

To a degree. I can't speak for Chicago, but Boston and New York fans live and breathe baseball (Boston moreso). It's not just something they pay attention to when the game's on. People talk about the game all day long. It's one of the reasons I like Redszone. Previously I'd been held hostage talking about baseball with fans of other teams.

[Chip R]

I do think that players and their families are somewhat over-sensitive to booing. They get booed a few times and the world is coming to an end and the fans are ingrates and bad people. I do agree there are some jackasses out there who get liquored up and take the first opportunity to abuse players - even their own. But those fans are not mutually exclusive to one city. Every city has them. Even high school games will have people who will boo players. I do disagree with Daddy Kearns that fans here look for players to strike out so they can boo. I think some fans take the first excuse they can get to boo someone and it does have a ripple effect. But I don't think they sit there and hope someone does bad just so they can boo.

I don't remember reading in that article how Daddy Kearns enjoyed it when the fans cheered Austin when he was hitting game winning HRs or making outstanding defensive plays. Perhaps he did say that and it was not included in the article. But it seems to me that athletes expect to be cheered and get upset when they get booed. If they don't want us to boo, should we not cheer them either?

Sooner or later the bloom is going to be off the rose in D.C. I wish Austin the best of luck but it's unrealistic to think that the fans there are going to be happy, shiny people when the Nats are on pace to lose 100 games and the media there starts ripping them. Especially when they move into their new ballpark.