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Thread: Jessica gets her Justice today!

  1. #76
    1st pick 2022 B.B. draft George Foster's Avatar
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    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    The death penalty, by contrast, is revenge. It has far more to do with appeasing those left on earth than it does punishing the perpetrator.
    The death penalty is not revenge, it is the ultimate punishment, for the ultimate crime. Persons on death row, must think prison is a lot better than death because very, very few stop the appeals process.
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  3. #77
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    And I'm saying to the types of criminals who would commit these crimes it's not punishment at all. They don't understand the concept of freedom, so how in the world could taking it away punish them? Society is standing over them saying "bad person, now go sit and do nothing" and the criminal is thinking, "uh....ok....what's for dinner".

    How many seconds of the day do you think they actually spend thinking about their crime?
    That's precisely the point, Ltlabner. They are not given the opportunity to think about anything else. What's for dinner? Same thing. Every day. For the rest of your life. You're reduced to the most basic animalistic functions.

    Basically the "they have to think about it till they die" argument is an extension of "go to your room and think about what you did" on a grander scale. Whoopie do.
    No, it isn't. You always get to leave your room at some point. The fact that you think of sitting in a tiny room for the rest of your life, with nothing to do, as a light punishment quite frankly makes me question your own concept of freedom.
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  4. #78
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    You're reduced to the most basic animalistic functions.
    These types of criminals are already reduced to their most basic animalistic functions. By locking them up for life all you've done is change their scenery.

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    The fact that you think of sitting in a tiny room for the rest of your life, with nothing to do, as a light punishment quite frankly makes me question your own concept of freedom.
    Actually, if you read my posts, I said it's not punishment for those who don't understand freedom (ie. criminals of this type). I'd imagine that the both of us would go completey bonkers in about 2 weeks with nothing to do all day but look at our shoes. Then again, we both understand freedom and neither of us is likely to go out a killing and a rapeing anytime soon are we?

    Because it is a punishment for you doesn't mean that it will have any effect whatsoever on the type of person capabile of these henous crimes.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 03-09-2007 at 01:10 AM.
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  5. #79
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    These types of criminals are already reduced to their most basic animalistic functions. By locking them up for life all you've done is change their scenery.



    Actually, if you read my posts, I said it's not punishment those who don't understand freedom (ie. criminals of this type). I'd imagine that the both of us would go completey bonkers in about 2 weeks with nothing to do all day but look at our shoes. Then again, we both understand freedom and neither of us is likely to go out a killing and a rapeing anytime soon are we?
    You're reducing people to a stereotype based on their actions which is a gross oversimplification. Violent criminals spring from all types of minds, dim as well as brilliant.
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  6. #80
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    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    You're reducing people to a stereotype based on their actions which is a gross oversimplification. Violent criminals spring from all types of minds, dim as well as brilliant.
    I'm not saying these people are ignorant. They may in a technical sense be brilliant. But that doesn't mean they comprehend the true meaning of freedom, let alone value it.

    They operate on an entirelly different set of rules. Those rules don't happen to include "don't kill and rape people".
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    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  7. #81
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Ok, Ltlabner. I think your argument is grossly simplistic and baseless, but taken at face value, I ask you this: how does the death penalty then serve as punishment? They don't value freedom; obviously, if they've killed, they don't value life. By your standard, taking away their own life is a concept beyond their comprehension. So how is it punishment for the perpetrator and not revenge for others?
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  8. #82
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    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    I'd argue that the mind that thinks these sorts of crimes are acceptable is not brilliant.

    I'm not saying these people are ignorant.

    I'm saying they operate on an entirelly different set of rules. One of those rules is not "don't kill and rape other people".
    You're arguing that just because they committed violent crime that they can't understand the concept or experience of prison as punishment which is an unfounded and misguided view of both humanity and criminality.
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  9. #83
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    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    It doesn't matter what they understand or don't understand.

    We're not talking about the wrong they've done.

    We're talking about not lowering ourselves as a society and doing the same wrong.

    Taking a human life, unless in self defense, is wrong.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  10. #84
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    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    Ok, Ltlabner. I think your argument is grossly simplistic and baseless, but taken at face value, I ask you this: how does the death penalty then serve as punishment? They don't value freedom; obviously, if they've killed, they don't value life. By your standard, taking away their own life is a concept beyond their comprehension. So how is it punishment for the perpetrator and not revenge for others?
    I think not understanding that these types of criminals operate by different rules and standards is simplistic and nieve. So I guess we're even then.

    Execution has several comonents IMO. Punishment for the criminal as their life is terminated. You are right that they don't likely their own lives but death is something we all try to avoid (with not too much sucess, I might add). So on some level they connect with it as a "bad idea". Probably because it's as cold and brutal as they are.

    Revenge is also certinally a component. So is getting a speeding ticket when you speed. Different crimes different levels of revenge, but revenge none the less. Frankly when someone has committed acts so horrific and gastly they offend the sensabilities of societ as a whole, I don't think a little revenge is such a bad thing.

    BTW, since you've deamed my opionions as baseless, where are the supporting facts and reams of research for yours? And I don't mean linking to a few anti-death penalty websites. The idea that sitting around doing nothing is as sevear as the death penalty is an equally baseless opinion.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 03-09-2007 at 08:22 AM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  11. #85
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Not meant to take the thread off track (if it was ever on one), but fyi...

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...582304,00.html

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  12. #86
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    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    Not meant to take the thread off track (if it was ever on one), but fyi...

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...582304,00.html
    Interesting article. Glad to see there was no adgenda behind it being written.

    So basically even solitary confinement is too mean and horible for people. Good lord. Maybe we should give them some self-esteeme classes and a hug from their mommy and see if that does the trick.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  13. #87
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    So basically even solitary confinement is too mean and horible for people. Good lord. Maybe we should give them some self-esteeme classes and a hug from their mommy and see if that does the trick.
    No crime, no time. That is as simple as it gets. No murder, no injection. Also a simple concept.
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  14. #88
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966 View Post
    No crime, no time. That is as simple as it gets. No murder, no injection. Also a simple concept.
    Is that the same as "we sell no wine before it's time" ?
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  15. #89
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    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    The same wrong? Who said anything about raping the guy and burying him alive?

    Can I slap you if you offend me? Break your window if your kid breaks mine? Blow your car up if you blow up mine?
    Comparing a broken window to a little girl who was raped and then put in the ground while still alive is just shameful.

    Its amazing how much some of you value the life of the scum who did this to the little girl, while forgetting about the little girl.

    Can you break my window? No, but you can probably get restitution through legal means.

    Care to explain what restitution Jessica's dad is going to get? Oh, her killer is in prison, YIPPEE!
    Last edited by MaineRed; 03-09-2007 at 09:04 AM.

  16. #90
    Yay! dabvu2498's Avatar
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    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    Considering the cost of an execution as a factor in deciding if we as a society are going to execute people seems obscene to me.

    It's a moral question only.

    And it's a bridge I can't cross. I don't believe in the death penalty.
    Good call.

    However, this is a country of laws. If the laws of this country say there is a death penalty, on a legal basis, I defer to the law.

    On a personal basis, I think the death penalty is an atrocity.

    Here's some more info: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf

    Take particular notice of the pie charts and the Hart Research Poll's survey of police chiefs on the last page.
    Last edited by dabvu2498; 03-09-2007 at 09:22 AM.
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