Turn Off Ads?
Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 3456789 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 125

Thread: Jessica gets her Justice today!

  1. #91
    Mod Law zombie-a-go-go's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Miskatonic University
    Posts
    4,302

    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    12:19 Do not avenge yourselves, dear friends, but give place to God’s wrath, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. 12:20 Rather, if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in doing this you will be heaping burning coals on his head. 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
    "It's easier to give up. I'm not a very vocal player. I lead by example. I take the attitude that I've got to go out and do it. Because of who I am, I've got to give everything I've got to come back."
    -Ken Griffey Jr.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #92
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    26,683

    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Its amazing how much some of you value the life of the scum who did this to the little girl, while forgetting about the little girl.
    Absolutely. But some will then say "we can't correct what this criminal did and bring this little girl back; but what we can attempt to do is try and rehabilitate this criminal, and instead of two lives being removed from this earth, we have possibly "redeemed" the one still here.

    Unfortunately, and in many people's eyes, justice was not served. And it's not my form of justice, or anyone else's concept of justice; but the justice of One whom we can't mention on this forum due to it's religious nature.

    We have allowed the "pendulum" to swing waaaay to far in the other direction, in this so-called noble attempt to be "above the murderer" or more humane, in our efforts to protect the rights of that murderer rather then those of the victim.

    And how many times has our judicial system allowed these people right back out on the streets again (parole, early release, prison over crowding, etc), only to see them commit murder or some other heinous crime again?

    I find it the highest form of disregard for human life, and it's value, to allow those who would, with premeditation, and without a second thought, maliciously take a human life.

    It's not lowering ourselves to their level. It is one of the roles of government, in any civil society, to maintain order and uphold the laws, and as needed - to exact justice upon the guilty.

    When I look at all those on death row - and I'm referring strictly to those who are nothing more then cold-blooded murderers - and who probably wouldn't "bat an eyelash" in doing it again. And the only remorse they show is that they got caught. And justice aside for a moment - why should society as a whole have to bear the burden, whether it's emotional and/or financial, of having to support and keep these individuals alive for the remainder of their days in solitary, where they are never going to contribute to that society?

    In earlier discussions of times past, I heard some advocate a position that it was better to abort (kill) the unborn rather then the possibility of having them grow up in poverty, grow up into a life of crime, or never contributing to that society. And they are the true innocent! Many have no problem with that position at all.

    Yet they'll fight "tooth and nail", in an effort to be more "humane" to protect the life of a cold blooded murderer. Go figure.

    And after saying that - I think this discussion needs to be carried on over in the Peanut Gallery for those interested in doing so.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  4. #93
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    26,683

    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by zombie-a-go-go View Post
    That's referring to personal (individual) vengeance Zombie. Yes, it is wrong for an individual to try and exact vengeance or try and take personal retribution out on one who has committed an atrocity or wrong towards them. Now read into the next chapter (13), and it tells you who's role it is to carry out justice and to meet punishment. It even asks the question "does the government yield the sword for naught?"

    So if you read those two chapters, and keep them in their context, the deterrent to the criminal is two-fold: First, the government. And if that's not enough to "deter" them, then there's that issue of having to one day face God.
    Last edited by GAC; 03-09-2007 at 08:45 AM.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  5. #94
    Member NJReds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    5,432

    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by zombie-a-go-go View Post
    I suspect you're confusing your definitions of 'justice' and 'vengeance.'
    Nope. There is nothing that can be done in this case that serves as "justice" for the crime committed, IMO. Burying a little girl alive... But my bias may come from the fact that I have a young daughter.

    As for 'mental illness' as an excuse...there's a cheerful old man who was caught in my town trying to lure two young girls into his car (which contained duct tape, rope and a knife). They screamed and ran away. Someone took notice and wrote down his licence plate number. He was caught...remanded to a psychiatric hospital...and let go after someone posted bond ($100K ... probably his lawyer). Now he's on the street again.

    So when he finally does rape and kill someone, I guess mental illness will be the excuse?

  6. #95
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    1,850

    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    You bet it will NJRed. And there will be some dope lawyer with less morals than John Couey standing up there:

    "Your honor, my client, clearly ........"

  7. #96
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    26,683

    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    Nope. There is nothing that can be done in this case that serves as "justice" for the crime committed, IMO. Burying a little girl alive... But my bias may come from the fact that I have a young daughter.

    As for 'mental illness' as an excuse...there's a cheerful old man who was caught in my town trying to lure two young girls into his car (which contained duct tape, rope and a knife). They screamed and ran away. Someone took notice and wrote down his licence plate number. He was caught...remanded to a psychiatric hospital...and let go after someone posted bond ($100K ... probably his lawyer). Now he's on the street again.

    So when he finally does rape and kill someone, I guess mental illness will be the excuse?
    And what you just illustrated is not an isolated case either. There have been many similar situations in this locale alone, and nation-wide, over the last several years. We had a guy living right around the corner from us that propositioned a 5 yr old girl for oral sex - he got a slap on the wrist. So he then raped a 9 yr old girl. He was then let out on bond until his trial. It was no comfort having this deviate living a few doors down for 6 months awaiting his trial while my kids were riding their bikes in the neighborhood.

    Committing evil is not always due to "mental illlness". Not saying there aren't instances; but it sure has given a lot of these individuals, via their lawyers, who are nothing more then evil manifested, with no conscience or soul, a nice little legal "out".

    So what if you were abused as a child or had some childlike trauma or experience. Manson did too! That is still no excuse or justification for committing a murder or other heinous act.

    I wish I could remember the name of the child predator/molester who gave a TV interview about 2-3 years ago. This guy had a 25 year record of molesting children and being in and out of prison. He had been through numerous programs to try and rehabilitate the guy. They'd let him out, and he'd do it again and be right back in. He was finally interviewed from prison and the guy said "If you value your children and their safety, then you will never let me out of prison ever."

    Not only our judicial system, but also our psychological community need to take to heart the testimony of guys like this. But they won't, and they'll keep trying to rehab them and cutting them loose again.
    Last edited by GAC; 03-09-2007 at 09:41 AM.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  8. #97
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    34,520

    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    And I'm saying to the types of criminals who would commit these crimes it's not punishment at all. They don't understand the concept of freedom, so how in the world could taking it away punish them? Society is standing over them saying "bad person, now go sit and do nothing" and the criminal is thinking, "uh....ok....what's for dinner".

    How many seconds of the day do you think they actually spend thinking about their crime?

    Basically the "they have to think about it till they die" argument is an extension of "go to your room and think about what you did" on a grander scale. Whoopie do.

    I can see your point. However, and I know it's hard to quantify this, it may be that confinement for the rest of one's life is worse for a person than ending their lives. There are some people out there who would be just fine if they were executed. It would put them out of their misery. Perhaps someone is clausterphobic. Being confined 23 hours a day in a small cell might be a greater punishment than ending their lives.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

  9. #98
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    5,872

    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    But the cost of the appeals, reviews and various other processes are what bost up the total cost of executing the criminal. Of course there should be appeals, reviews, etc in the process, but I can't believe anyone would argue that the legal process is a streamlined, effecient process.
    Who's arguing that it's streamlined and efficient? I'm arguing for the opposite, actually. If our government has decided to use our tax money to assert a moral authority to kill people in the name of justice, i want them to make every effort possible to ensure that they're executing the "right" people. The death penalty is a scourge on this country that, as a U.S. citizen, I must hold my nose and tolerate until such time as it finally gets repealed. Until then, I support taking as much time and as many appeals as the justice system feels are necessary in order to do it "right".

    I only pointed out that the government does stuff I don't like with my tax dollars because you said you object to your money being use to fund executions. I was trying to say in a nice way, why are your wishes for the use of tax monies special while mine aren't?
    I raised the point because you took issue with your tax money being used to house, clothe and feed prisoners. So, right back atcha--why should your wishes trump mine?

    The answer, of course, has nothing to do with the personal feelings of U.S. citizens as to how their money is spent, and like RFS said basing your argument in support of/against the death penalty on financial grounds is absurd. Unless your idea of justice comes with an asterisk that mandates it only if financially feasible. The death penalty IS a moral question, not a financial one. Which is precisely where my opposition to it stems from.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  10. #99
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    5,872

    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    Revenge is also certinally a component. So is getting a speeding ticket when you speed. Different crimes different levels of revenge, but revenge none the less.
    Completely disagree. A speeding ticket is a penalty for exceeding the speed limit, and is meant to deter people from doing that.

    Perhaps a visit to Webster's is in order, to identify what "revenge" means, exactly:

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielWebster
    re·venge
    Pronunciation [ri-venj]
    noun – verb (used with object)
    1. to exact punishment or expiation for a wrong on behalf of, esp. in a resentful or vindictive spirit: He revenged his murdered brother.
    2. to take vengeance for; inflict punishment for; avenge: He revenged his brother's murder.
    –verb (used without object) 3. to take revenge.
    –noun 4. the act of revenging; retaliation for injuries or wrongs; vengeance.
    5. something done in vengeance.
    6. the desire to revenge; vindictiveness.
    7. an opportunity to retaliate or gain satisfaction.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    [Origin: 1350–1400; ME revengen (v.) < MF, OF revenger, equiv. to re- re- + venger to avenge < L vindicāre; see vindicate]
    Now, perhaps my grasp of the English language just isn't that great, but would you mind showing me which of these definitions applies to someone receiving a speeding ticket for exceeding the posted speed limit?
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  11. #100
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    5,872

    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    BTW, the map below represents the countries that have abolished the death penalty (in blue), abolished it but for "special circumstances" (green), retain it but haven't used it for at least 10 years (orange) and retain it and use it (red).

    I gotta tell you, we're in some pretty good company here.

    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  12. #101
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    26,683

    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis View Post
    Who's arguing that it's streamlined and efficient? I'm arguing for the opposite, actually. If our government has decided to use our tax money to assert a moral authority to kill people in the name of justice, i want them to make every effort possible to ensure that they're executing the "right" people. The death penalty is a scourge on this country that, as a U.S. citizen, I must hold my nose and tolerate until such time as it finally gets repealed. Until then, I support taking as much time and as many appeals as the justice system feels are necessary in order to do it "right".
    The system does need improved utilizing the newest and latest scientific and forensic techniques now available. And they have been doing so. So I agree with you on that aspect. But I don't believe it should, nor ever will be, repealed. It was tried/instituted before, with the Supreme Court behind it (and in some situations rightfully so). And states have amended their procedures to show those "revisions" and meet the constitutionality requirements.


    The death penalty IS a moral question, not a financial one. Which is precisely where my opposition to it stems from.
    And I respect that. But WHO's morals? Who sets that standard that guides you? And why are so many concerned about the moral rights of a murderer then they are of the victim and/or family?

    And many today argue that it is even immoral to incarcerate an individual for the rest of their lives in a tiny cell, and that it is a form of inhumane torture? How do you address those individual's position?
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  13. #102
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,275

    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    So reg, you think it would be better to be in line with most of the civilized world rather than Mongolia and Iran?
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  14. #103
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    26,683

    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis View Post
    BTW, the map below represents the countries that have abolished the death penalty (in blue), abolished it but for "special circumstances" (green), retain it but haven't used it for at least 10 years (orange) and retain it and use it (red).

    I gotta tell you, we're in some pretty good company here.

    Mexico has no need to execute them. They just slip them over the border to us. Lou Dobbs recently reported that 33 percent of our prison population is now comprised of non-citizens.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  15. #104
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts
    16,960

    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    It's really about time to close this thread b/c my next response to some of this crap is definitely going to be political.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  16. #105
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    5,872

    Re: Jessica gets her Justice today!

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    And I respect that. But WHO's morals? Who sets that standard that guides you? And why are so many concerned about the moral rights of a murderer then they are of the victim and/or family?
    I'm sorry GAC, this isn't personally against you, but that's a completely bogus comparison that you're making, and I see it made all the time. It goes something like this: People who don't support the death penalty are placing the rights of the perpetrator over the victim or their family. And it's utter crap.

    What Couey did to the girl is sickening, and if it were up to me I'd likely pull the trigger on the guy myself. To think that anyone could be that cruel and inhumane is mind-boggling. My heart goes out to the girl and her family, and I want to see justice served as much as anyone else. But it's the idea of "justice" on which we disagree.

    I don't believe an eye for an eye, or in this case, a life for a life, is justice. It doesn't bring Jessica back or prevent the crime from occuring, and the threat of being executed doesn't deter people from committing crimes. Many of us WANT to see Couey killed--as I said, I wouldn't mind myself. But it's exactly why we are not empowered to make such decisions.

    Executing people is nothing more than vengeance for a crime. And I've seen it argued in this thread that, apparently, that's OK. I disagree--our government shouldn't be in the business of exacting revenge and seeking vengeance for crimes that we as a society deem particularly heinous. So enough with this "placing the rights of the perpetrator above the victim" nonsense.

    And many today argue that it is even immoral to incarcerate an individual for the rest of their lives in a tiny cell, and that it is a form of inhumane torture? How do you address those individual's position?
    ...and some people feel that jailing drug offenders is wrong, or sending mentally retarded individuals to prison is wrong. My response is the same to all of them: if the practice is indeed inhumane, it is a debate that we should have in the public sphere to determine its rightfulness. Perhaps lifelong imprionsment IS inhumane; I can't say for sure. But what I can say with absolutely clear conviction and clean moral conscience is that the state's practice of executing people for crimes isn't a practice the state should be partaking in--it is the one type of punishment that I don't believe should be open for public debate, for the reasons I stated above.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25