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Thread: Hot Stove League show report

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Hot Stove League show report

    Here is the Reds Hot Stove League show report for 3-8-07. Tom Gamble was the host tonight and started the show by mentioning that the Reds were undefeated in ST and recapped yesterday's victory.

    After commercial, Marty called in from Florida. Tom said that even though it is ST, you have to like what you see so far in some areas. Marty agreed and said ST is about getting people ready to play and winning is a bonus. They aren't doing things to beat themselves which is important. The defense is good and it hasn't lessened their chances of winning. Tom mentioned the victory on Tuesday where the winning run was scored on a squeeze play and asked Marty if the Reds were now doing the little things that it takes to win. Marty said that it's a wait and see deal. He said that a lot of teams talk a good game about doing the little things but they can't execute when necessary. Marty said he'd love to see the squeeze used as a viable weapon in the Reds offense much like the Cardinals use it. Tom said that you have to have guys who can do it. Marty agreed and said guys like Eckstein can get a bunt down on demand but you have to try to see if you have players who are capable of doing that and the only time you can find that out is during ST.

    Tom asked Marty about Josh Hamilton and said that Josh having only 1 strikeout was impressive. Marty was less enthusiastic and said he's doing this against minor league pitching. He said it's a great story and everybody wants to see him succeed but he would like to see how he is hitting on May 1. He said from a defensive standpoint, he's the best OFer the club has today. He's got a great arm, gets a great jump in the ball and does things that are mindblowing out there. But he takes a dim view of Josh being able to hit major league pitching. Marty said he hopes he's wrong and if he is Josh will play every day. Marty said there is no doubt he will make the team then he said he has a problem with a guy like Hamilton making the team cause he isn't one of the 25 best players. Marty said back in the days of Howsam and Wagner they took the best 25 players regardless. (Marty then yelled at some kids to get off his lawn).

    After commercial, Tom and Marty continued their conversation. Tom asked Marty about some pitchers and some difficult choices they are going to have to make. Marty said that a lot of it is going to depend on what a guy makes. He said Milton and Lohse are going to make the team but they haven't done anything to show that they should make the team. He said it should be interesting to see Livingston pitch tonight as Wayne really likes him and he's going to be facing a good lineup. Tom asked about Paul Wilson. Marty said he would love to see Wilson make the team but he doesn't know if he can. Marty said he was talking to Jeff Brantley about him the other day and Jeff said that if a pitcher can't throw at east 87 mph, he can't get big league hitters out. Wilson was around 87-88 his first time out and less than that the 2nd time. Marty said he will be given every opportunity to make the team cause people want him to succeed. Marty said that there is a lot of competition for the 5th spot though.

    Tom asked about Matt Belisle and Victor Santos who both pitched well. Marty said Belisle has to show that he can be consistent. Marty also mentioned Hermanson and all things being equal they would live to see him pitch well enough to be the closer. Tom then asked about the Rule 5 draft and said it's a shame that the Reds have to keep him on the 25 man roster if they want to keep him. He said the Reds had to do the same thing with Pena a few years back. He said the Reds could try to negotiate a trade with TB to get his rights and then send him down to the minors and not have to worry about losing him. Marty said the Reds play 18 games against teams in their on division in April so it's going to be important to get out of the gate quickly and if a guy like Josh can't help you it compounds the problem even more. Tom said that a team like the Reds can't afford to not take the best 25 guys north. Marty said he doesn't know why he gets so worked up about it (Cause you're bitter?) cause there's nothing he can do about it. But he said that these teams talk about winning and then they have situations like this and the inconsistancy bugs him.

    Tom asked if Jr's problem would linger on. Marty said he's disappointed because there hasn't been a scenario that said he is going to play on a certain day. He realizes he was injured and you have to be careful but if this is going to linger on to next week and the week after, then there's a problem.

    After commercial the first caller asked if Jr. is still hurting the 3rd or 4th week of ST, what happens then. Tom said that with Jr. you can't win for losing. If you target a date and he isn't ready, then people start to ask questions. He said that Narron has told Jr. to tell him when he's ready to play. Tom said this isn't a team where guys can come along slowly and you expect to win. The caller said he's not in the "trade Jr." camp but if he can't stay healthy, you have to think about moving him. Tom said that if the Reds could have traded Jr. they would have already but how can you trade a guy who can't play. The caller said he'd have no problems with Dunn in LF, Josh in CF and Freel in RF with Deno coming off the bench. Tom said that he agrees with Marty (big surprise) and isn't sure he's ready for the big leagues.

    The next caller asked if Freel could play every day. Tom said that everyone believes Freel wears down and can't play every day. Tom said that he has to prove that he can stay healthy all year. The caller asked if he is a prototypical CF for another team. Tom said he is for any team and he has more range than Jr.

    After commercial the next caller asked if the Reds would let Paul Wilson go if he doesn't make the team. Tom said that he did struggle the other day and he didn't get the velocity he needed to be effective. He said the Reds can't afford to keep him around just cause he's a good guy.

    The next caller said that he could understand Jr. being babied along a few years ago but now what's the big deal if he gets hurt cause you aren't that much worse off than before. Tom said that it's frustrating when he's day to day and you want him out there but you know he's going to get hurt. Tom said that Jr. doesn't have to prove himself in ST but he'd hate to see him slump through April like he did a few years ago.

    After commercial the next caller asked why Harang didn't even get a Cy Young vote from the Cincinnati writers. Tom said that he doesn't know.

    Thus endeth the Reds Hot Stove League show report for 3-7-7. So let it be written. So let it be done.
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  3. #2
    part of BBN jmac's Avatar
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    Re: Hot Stove League show report

    On Hamilton.....correct me if I'm wrong but at least 3 of the starters have been Zach Duke, Boof Bonser, and Shawon Chacon.
    Now I know these arent Cy Young winners but they are major league pitchers.
    I cant remember who started the other games but at least 3 of the first 6 were not "double A and triple A" pitchers as Marty stated.
    Josh has been in from the start and not coming in late when most of your "guys trying to impress" comes in.
    As i've said before ...I think Marty calls an excellent game but his other opinions are why i started getting the hotstove show from chip rather than listening.Tonight I heard just these comments then turned off radio.
    Go reds !

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    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Hot Stove League show report

    Jon Lieber too. He's had some cuts against legit pitchers. Marty sometimes, as we know, doesn't let facts get in the way of opinion...

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    Re: Hot Stove League show report

    Thanks Chip,good job as always.

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    Gary Redus Ruled
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    Re: Hot Stove League show report

    I dont understand why he's so upset about the guy being kept up when he clearly states he's the best outfielder on the team. Let me see...left hand bat with some pop off the bench,great defensive replacement in the late innnings anywhere in the OF with a cannon, and most likely a pretty damn good pinch runner. Is that not 25th man qualities? For gods sake Mckracken didnt offer much as the 25 guy last year but Marty probably gave him a pass for his young body...
    Hoping for another Reds October

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    Gary Redus Ruled
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    Re: Hot Stove League show report

    ps Thanks for the info Chip R each week from a Reds fan in ny
    Hoping for another Reds October

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    Re: Hot Stove League show report

    Marty is obvisiouly scared. If Hamilton really takes off that means he will be the everyday CF, with Dunn in left and Griffey/Freel in right. You know what that means, not very much playing time for Jeff "I like the way his young body fills out his uniform" Conine. With Hatteberg the leftie at first Conine will see a lot of bench time. And that is something Marty will have none of!!

  9. #8
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Hot Stove League show report

    One thing I remember hearing was Tom saying that Jeff Brantley says there is a speed that all pitchers must hit, and that is at least 87 MPH in order to get Major League hitters out regularly. I completely agree with that statement. The amount of guys who throw slower than that consistantly can probably be counted on one or two hands. The irony in that? He praised Bobby Livingston the other day, despite the fact that he sits about 85 MPH.

  10. #9
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Hot Stove League show report

    Thanks Chip
    Go Gators!

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    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Hot Stove League show report

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Marty said he doesn't know why he gets so worked up about it (Cause you're bitter?) cause there's nothing he can do about it.
    But when RZ throws hissy fits over the smallest roster move it's because 'we care' and 'we just want the Reds to win' and 'we're direhard fans'. When Marty gets worked up over issues with which he has no control he's 'bitter'.


    Quote Originally Posted by jmac View Post
    I cant remember who started the other games but at least 3 of the first 6 were not "double A and triple A" pitchers as Marty stated.
    Yea, because we all know in the first two weeks of spring training that Hamiltion is seeing the best pitching the league has to offer. And those pitchers are pouring on all their heat and their best changeups & curves. Please. Anybody here care to argue that the pitching in the first two weeks of ST is major league regular season quality?

    Funny that when people express some excitement of the Reds early success in ST they are quickly reminded that it's ONLY spring training and pitchers traditionally need to catch up. Yet when Marty points out that Hamilton has not yet succeded again top flight pitching he's pilloried.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redus View Post
    I dont understand why he's so upset about the guy being kept up when he clearly states he's the best outfielder on the team.
    Actually the text of Chips HSL report said that Marty called him the best 'defensive' out fielder but has concerns for his hitting. But hey, why let a little thing like facts get in your way.

    Quote Originally Posted by geniusMoment View Post
    You know what that means, not very much playing time for Jeff "I like the way his young body fills out his uniform" Conine.
    Yea, when folks on RZ caution us against getting overlly excited about Hamilton they are 'wise' and 'realistic' and 'tempering themselves'. When Marty expresses the exact same sentiments it's because he's actively campaigning against Hamilton in favor of Conine.

    I think Marty is dead wrong about Hamilton, but lets be a little objective in our comments folks.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 03-08-2007 at 07:57 AM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

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  12. #11
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Hot Stove League show report

    Good job as usual Chip. You forgot the guy that thinks the Reds should play Hopper and Denorfia in Left and Center because they hustle. He also didn't understand why the Reds could not just send Hamilton to AA or AAA, because Hopper and Denorfia had to "earn" their way up. Gamble went round and round with him, explaining the Rule 5 rules, and then the caller said, "I just don't know why he deserves to be in the majors."

    Marty is nuts, he says that Hamilton is the best defensive outfielder, and then he worries about him making the team. If Hamilton is one of the "best 25" as Marty says so often, which he clearly has been so far, by Marty's line of reasoning how is it such a bad thing that Hamilton makes it. This team has let the likes of Quentin Mckracken, Dewayne Wise, and Kenny Kelly occupy roster space for extended stretches over the last few seasons. Why should we be that worried about Josh Hamilton?
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Hot Stove League show report

    Quote Originally Posted by geniusMoment View Post
    If Hamilton really takes off that means he will be the everyday CF, with Dunn in left and Griffey/Freel in right.
    Make no mistake about it, if Hamilton is the starting CF for the Reds on opening day (or the everday CF at ANY point during this season) it would be beyond a remarkable story and an unlikely occurence in the extreme.

    We're all excited about the potential of getting a former #1 that drew comparisons to Mantle while he was in High School, but don't forget he has never taken a live AB above AA ball in a game that mattered. He is showing a skill set that seems to indicate he has the tools to make it, but it is a long, long road up for Josh Hamilton.

    The best the Reds (and fans) should be hoping for is Tampa realizing that they're not getting him back ever and working a deal that allows the Reds to send Hamilton to Louisville, w/ Johnny Narron as his babysitter, to allow him to get everyday ABs and coaching. That is the best chance the Reds have of getting real return out of this whole process, IMO.

    Having said that, I'm not going to be surprised at anything this kid does. He's pretty damn good.
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    Re: Hot Stove League show report

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    Yea, when folks on RZ caution us against getting overlly excited about Hamilton they are 'wise' and 'realistic' and 'tempering themselves'. When Marty expresses the exact same sentiments it's because he's actively campaigning against Hamilton in favor of Conine.

    I think Marty is dead wrong about Hamilton, but lets be a little objective in our comments folks.
    They aren't the same people Abner. The 'Zoners who caution about Hamilton and his early success are NOT the same ones who are currently ripping Marty for the same thing in this thread. Too many times people lump all RedsZoners together as if we all have the exact same opinions making everyone look like hypocrites. I'm sure the posters who have ripped on Marty in this thread would also rip flyer or M2 or anyone else if they were telling us to "temper our expectations" about Hamilton.

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    part of BBN jmac's Avatar
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    Re: Hot Stove League show report

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post


    Yea, because we all know in the first two weeks of spring training that Hamiltion is seeing the best pitching the league has to offer. And those pitchers are pouring on all their heat and their best changeups & curves. Please. Anybody here care to argue that the pitching in the first two weeks of ST is major league regular season quality?

    Funny that when people express some excitement of the Reds early success in ST they are quickly reminded that it's ONLY spring training and pitchers traditionally need to catch up. Yet when Marty points out that Hamilton has not yet succeded again top flight pitching he's pilloried.
    Here is the deal.....what Marty said was JH was facing Double A and Triple A pitching.
    He used those exact words.
    Now dont make me say something I didnt say...I never said that hamilton was facing pitchers "pouring on all their heat etc".
    All I merely was stating is if a guy is facing some teams starters ...then "dont" say he is doing it "all" against Double A pitching etc.
    The starters were Leiber..Duke...Bonser ...Chacon.
    According to my reports...theses are starters for major league teams.
    If he wanted to say "JH doing this against starters working on things"...fine.
    So I wasnt pilloring marty for his opinion, just saying facts were not actual.
    Some times people dissect statements too much.

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    Re: Hot Stove League show report

    Yet when Marty points out that Hamilton has not yet succeded again top flight pitching he's pilloried.
    People have a problem when Franchester mischaracterizes Hamilton's performance by saying he's been hitting against minor leaguers. He's wrong about that. Sure, the major league guys are not what they will be, not at all. But if what Hamilton has been doing is blatantly unremarkable, as Franchester suggests, then why isn't everybody else hitting .500?
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