Biggest Tournament Snubs

[Yachtzee]

Oh god please not a Billy Packer reference in hopes of gaining support for an opinion related to mid-majors getting into the Big Dance.

I think the classic 5-12 upset special arose from a tendency for the powers that be to overrate mediocre major conference teams and underrate good mid-major teams. I'm not saying open the flood gates to the mid-majors. But I think the presence of mid-majors makes the tournament a lot more interesting than if it were just a bunch of teams from major conferences playing each other.

[dsmith421]

I'm with Dsmith on this one. Syracuse's road schedule might as well have been non-existent... we're talking Duke-esque levels here.

Boeheim has been pulling this crap for years and I'm just totally sick of it, and even more sick of his enablers at ESPN who treat it like some crime against humanity when a name program doesn't get an at-large nod.

[dsmith421]

I have no real pity for "bubble" teams who don't make the tourney.

Seriously - everyone is quibbling over who the 66th, 67th & 68th best teams are in basketball.

90% of the programs in D-I know, realistically, that they have no shot at a national championship. For many, obtaining an NCAA bid makes for a successful season, a huge boost to school pride and alumni contributions. It's the same principle as smaller bowl games.

To the objective observer with no dog in the fight, it may not be a big deal. For a lot of us though, it's the difference between a so-so and a great season. Plus it's a lot of fun to be a fan of a team in the field, especially if you get to go to the venue.

[Blimpie]

According to facts, bud. Look them up sometime, they are readily available.

Syracuse did go 10-6 in the Big East, but that's the only real thing going for them. Their win against Georgetown was trumped by their losses to Oklahoma St., Drexel, and Wichita St, the latter 2 at home.

They really did nothing to separate themselves from the other bubble teams. They only won 2 games against the RPI top 50. Stanford won 4 and Illinois won 3. Syracuse had an SOS of 46, Stanford's was 35, and Illinois had a 24.

It's not hard to figure this stuff out. The fact is, guys like Lunardi and Palm had them in because of name value, they were not held out due to any grudges. Simply put, other teams were more impressive. You need to check yourself before playing the "objectivity" card.

You said their conference "ranked fifth". You then told me to "look it up," but I still haven't heard which ranking system you were citing.

When they lost by four points to Oklahoma State, OSU was 15-1 at the time. It is not Syracuse's fault that the Cowboys went on a losing streak after that.

By the way, they won three games versus the RPI top 50--not two....

Maybe you should look it up....Bud.

[MaineRed]

Boeheim has been pulling this crap? What crap is that, being the coach of a national power in what is usually a top 2 conference?

North Carolina only played at Tennessee and at St Louis. Where is the bed they made for themselves? Oh, look a number one seed.

Wisconsin played one out of state road game before the Big Ten schedule, vs Missouri State.

Kansas played two road games before January.

Florida brought in Kansas and Ohio State but they never left the sunshine state until they played an SEC road game. This is what coaches do.

You said their conference "ranked fifth". You then told me to "look it up," but I still haven't heard which ranking system you were citing.

When they lost by four points to Oklahoma State, OSU was 15-1 at the time. It is not Syracuse's fault that the Cowboys went on a losing streak after that.

He's talking RPI.

Oklahoma State was 10-0 after beating Syracuse. They started 15-1 before going on their slide. Witichita State got off to a similar hot start and then faded. They were a top 10 team early in the season. Despite playing these teams when there were considered among the best in the nation, Syracuse actually played the teams that fell off the map in everyones mind. And everyone keeps saying they should have beaten Drexel. Well Drexel won at Villanova the game before winning in the Carrier Dome. If losing to Drexel at home means something, why is Nova in? Syracuse finished ahead of Villanova in the Big East.

[Roy Tucker]

It could be worse...

http://www.latimes.com/sports/printe...ines-pe-sports

[guttle11]

You said their conference "ranked fifth". You then told me to "look it up," but I still haven't heard which ranking system you were citing.

When they lost by four points to Oklahoma State, OSU was 15-1 at the time. It is not Syracuse's fault that the Cowboys went on a losing streak after that.

By the way, they won three games versus the RPI top 50--not two....

Maybe you should look it up....Bud.

You're right, it's not their fault Oklahoma State went into the toilet. But it is their fault they lost to them. It is their fault they lost to Wichita State and Drexel.

People look at the entire body of work, not just the good times. Wichita State was a mediocre team, as was Oklahoma State. Drexel was a true bubble team. You don't stand out when you lose those games.

Again, when you let yourself fall onto the "bubble" you have no room to complain.

MaineRed- Villanova may have lost to Drexel, but they separated themselves from the bubble by beating Texas OOC.

[RichRed]

Remember, George Mason is nowhere to be found this March.

George Mason came within 6 points of beating 27-6 VCU in the CAA final.

To answer the question posed, Drexel is the biggest snub. As dsmith421 and others mentioned, they did everything the NCAA asks a team to do: specifically, win games on the road against good competition.

Drexel was 13-4 on the road, including wins at Villanova, Syracuse, Temple, Creighton and conference foe ODU, a tourney at-large invitee.

Drexel is easily the biggest NCAA snub, in my biased opinion. (Full disclosure: I am an alum of a CAA school, James Madison, albeit one that has been lousy at basketball for the past several years.)

But I agree about Akron. How they don't even get invited to the NIT is beyond me.

[Puffy]

Who is Syracuse supposed to schedule? On top of playing in the Big East are they supposed to play half the Big Ten?

They had back to back to back games against Holy Cross (in the tourney), Witchita State (Elite 8 last year) and Oklahoma State (not Syracuse's fault they faltered down the stretch). If you want to make it four of five games, Syracuse also played Drexel, a team many consider to be the biggest snub in the land.

Look at Georgetown's non conference. They lost to Duke, Oregon and Old Dominion and have a win over Vandy. The rest of their non conference is a bunch of cupcakes. If teams are rewarded for schedules like this with two seeds then surely there is space for a 22-10 team from the Big East with a 10-6 conference record, including a win over Georgetown. That loss by the Hoyas btw is their only loss in the last TWO MONTHS. Think about that. How do you lose to a non tourney team after not losing for two months and then get a two seed? Shouldn't Georgetown be able to stand up against weaklings like Syracuse?

I see a lot of folks claiming Syracuse should have a tougher schedule. Moves like this are only going to make teams schedule weaker. Instead of bringing in Witichita and Drexel and giving some good mid majors a shot to beat him, Boeheim has to comtemplate scheduling true cupcakes so he can be like Georgetown and finish 27-6 instead of 21-9. He alluded to this today.

Everyone wants the mid majors to be given a chance, they want big time coaches to schedule games with these schools but then look what happens when a coach does that, he gets accused of having a cupcake scheule when he has to battle six freaking NCAA teams from his own conference.

Quick Jimmy B, get Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self and Thad Matta on the phone and lets see if they have any openings on their schedule. Lets go lose to those teams, that will impress the committee.



Most assinine thing said in this thread. Other than this years schedule you have nothing to back this up. Syracuse doesn't turn down invitations. When Maui, Alaska or the preseason NIT call, the Cuse is there. Boeheim won a national title a few years ago and had won back to back big east tourneys going into this year. To say he is a coward is an absolute joke. You make your schedule and live with it but you have no idea how it will turn out. If OSU continued down the path they were on when they beat Syracuse, the Orange are probably in. Had WSU not faltered and gotten in, Syracuse is probably in. Who knew the Big East wouldn't be as good this year.

Games with Pitt, G-Town, UConn, Marquette, Louisville, Notre Dame, Villanova and West Virginia are tough enough. Outside of maybe three or four confernces nobody is playing those caliber of teams on their entire schedule. You have to figure on being in for a battle in that conference. Otherwise, you toughen up the non-conference, lose a couple more games there and then say you go 8-8 in conference and all of a sudden you are a lock for the NIT at 18-14. I can see why Syracuse doesn't spend November traveling through the Big 12.

A coach who has won 800 games, coaching in that league is a coward? A coach who has taken his team, in the past to Arizona, Tennessee, Missouri, UCLA and Michigan State, among other places, is a coward?

Would you say that to his face?

Please - I lived in Syracuse for 10 years and I can tell you I've heard this crap about Boeheim forever.

He has for the last 31 years refused to schedule away games. He plays in state teams and makes them come to the Carrier Dome. He plays in pre-season tourneys once every four or five years and he never schedules a North Carolina or a Texas.

I used to hate all things SU - living in Syracuse can do that to a person. But I've grown to respect Boeheim. He's a real good coach when he has little talent(but a too talented team and he becomes a much less effective coach. Those teams with Owens and Colemen should have won championships). But you cannot deny that he feasts on small schools (which is fine) and won't leave the Carrier Dome (again, I understand this - the Dome makes mucho money for the Cuse). In this new era he needs to adjust and getting left out of the tourney should signal this to him. He's gonna need to travel a little, get a big game or two on the schedule every year and then he won't have these problems.

[Puffy]

As for the snubs:

Syracuse was a victim of two things - one was Boeheim's schedule and not leaving New York before January. Two was the unbalanced schedule of the Big East. It just didin't give them enough quality wins.

Drexel was 1 and 5 against the top teams in the Colonial. That and not making a better showing in the conference tourney did them in.

Arkansas getting in over either of these two was a joke.

The Big Ten was WEAK this year. It was OSU, then Wisconsin then everyone else. Getting 6 teams from them was a joke. I'm talking to you Purdue and Illinois.

[Puffy]

Boeheim has been pulling this crap? What crap is that, being the coach of a national power in what is usually a top 2 conference?

North Carolina only played at Tennessee and at St Louis. Where is the bed they made for themselves? Oh, look a number one seed.

And at Arizona - you conveniently left that out. Plus they Gonzaga on a neutral floor, Ohio State at home, should I go on?

[rdiersin]

As for the snubs:

Syracuse was a victim of two things - one was Boeheim's schedule and not leaving New York before January. Two was the unbalanced schedule of the Big East. It just didin't give them enough quality wins.

Drexel was 1 and 5 against the top teams in the Colonial. That and not making a better showing in the conference tourney did them in.

Arkansas getting in over either of these two was a joke.

The Big Ten was WEAK this year. It was OSU, then Wisconsin then everyone else. Getting 6 teams from them was a joke. I'm talking to you Purdue and Illinois.

I don't quite see how it is a joke. I think legitmate arguments can be made for both Purdue and Illinois. Personally I thought only one of them would get in, but it seems you are saying neither should have gotten in. I don't quite see that.

[Chip R]

Perhaps Syracuse did get screwed. But when you play in a conference with 16 teams you don't get a lot of sympathy from people.

[Puffy]

I don't quite see how it is a joke. I think legitmate arguments can be made for both Purdue and Illinois. Personally I thought only one of them would get in, but it seems you are saying neither should have gotten in. I don't quite see that.

I'm saying that one deserved to be in maybe, but not both. I could have lived with 5 teams making it, but 6? No way.

The ACC was a way better conference last year than the Big Ten was this year and the ACC got only 4 in (in 2006). I just don't see how you give 6 bids to the Big 10 this year.

[dabvu2498]

As for the snubs:

Syracuse was a victim of two things - one was Boeheim's schedule and not leaving New York before January. Two was the unbalanced schedule of the Big East. It just didin't give them enough quality wins.

Drexel was 1 and 5 against the top teams in the Colonial. That and not making a better showing in the conference tourney did them in.

Arkansas getting in over either of these two was a joke.

The Big Ten was WEAK this year. It was OSU, then Wisconsin then everyone else. Getting 6 teams from them was a joke. I'm talking to you Purdue and Illinois.

Stanford getting in is the worst.