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Thread: Bowie Kuhn dead at 80

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Bowie Kuhn has passed away

    According to ESPN.com

    More info to come.

    PONTE VEDRA BEACH, Fla. -- Former commissioner Bowie Kuhn, who lorded over baseball during 15 tumultuous years that saw players gain free agency and start the spiral of multimillion-dollar salaries, died Thursday. He was 80.

    Kuhn died at St. Luke's Hospital following a short illness, said his spokesman Bob Wirz, who led baseball's information office while Kuhn was commissioner.

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Bowie Kuhn dead at 80

    "He isn't very economy minded, I believe he's doubled his staff since he became Commissioner"
    Phil Wrigley on Bowie Kuhn

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Bowie Kuhn dead at 80

    Given Selig and his tenure, with the commish having no gumption whatsoever, it almost makes you pine for Bowie.

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    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Bowie Kuhn dead at 80

    RIP, Bowie.

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    Given Selig and his tenure, with the commish having no gumption whatsoever, it almost makes you pine for Bowie.
    I'm not sure I'd go that far. Both were terrible, but I fear that Selig will actually have a positive legacy. Not the case with Kuhn.

    I don't think the guy was bad intentioned, just not smart enough for the job. Kuhn completely overplayed the hand he was dealt. The owners had the players under their thumbs, and if he'd have thrown them just a couple more crumbs here and there, I suspect that the players would have assented.

    If you want to become a whole lot smarter, read John Helyar's "Lords of the Realm" and Marvin Miller's "Whole Different Ballgame." Then, if you want to become almost as dumber as the former books made you smarter, read Bowie Kuhn's book.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

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    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Bowie Kuhn dead at 80

    WOW.....Maybe I should edit my signature.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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    Member Redlegs's Avatar
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    Re: Bowie Kuhn dead at 80

    All Reds fans who are old enough will almost immediately think of the Vida Blue trade that did not happen.

    God bless the Kuhn family.

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    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Bowie Kuhn dead at 80

    Quote Originally Posted by Redlegs View Post
    All Reds fans who are old enough will almost immediately think of the Vida Blue trade that did not happen.

    God bless the Kuhn family.
    Dave Revering, for Vida Blue, 1977. Would have been the steal of the century, even bigger (at the time) than the Seaver trade turned out to be. Kuhn denied the trade, Finley was trying to dismantle the team and he saw that, and probably, it was a good thing for baseball at the time. Revering was a touted phenom who never panned out.
    Last edited by Always Red; 03-16-2007 at 01:03 AM.

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    Baseball card addict MrCinatit's Avatar
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    Re: Bowie Kuhn dead at 80

    Quote Originally Posted by Redlegs View Post
    All Reds fans who are old enough will almost immediately think of the Vida Blue trade that did not happen.

    God bless the Kuhn family.
    I ran into Kuhn when I was at Cooperstown during Bench's induction.
    It was actually a little bit after the ceremony, and we saw a group of people gathered around an elderly man. We had no idea who he was - we thought he was an ex-player - so I went over to get him to sign my ball.
    He happily took my ball and signed it - and it was just then, another man blurted out "How come you didn't let us have Blue?" - then I realized who it was.
    He only laughed and kept on signing.

    Even though the trade was voided, the Giants didn't give up the bank in obtaining him.

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Bowie Kuhn dead at 80

    IMO Bowie Kuhn was the worst Commissioner this sport has ever seen. Sure the Vida Blue deal is one thing although I'm not sure the Reds beat the Dodgers in '77 or '78 even with Blue. But there's also where he told the Braves when they could put Hank Aaron in the lineup and when they couldn't in 1974.

    Sure he did let the union take over the game which led to numerous work stoppages.

    And then there is his most egregious error: Allowing different rules to be played in the AL and NL. That was completely idiotic and it's damaged the game to this day. It was Kuhn who allowed the AL to institute the DH. Say what you want about the merits of using the DH but no way, no how should one league employ its use and not the other. I've never seen anything like it in any other league. Like half the NBA using the 3 pt shot or half the NFL having the goalposts on the goaline. What goes through a Commissioner's mind when he says "sure it's OK for one league to use rule A and the other league to have rule B."

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    Member Strikes Out Looking's Avatar
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    Re: Bowie Kuhn dead at 80

    And let us not forget 1981. Reds best record in baseball and no-post-season because of the rules instituted under Kuhn's watch.
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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Bowie Kuhn dead at 80

    Quote Originally Posted by Strikes Out Looking View Post
    And let us not forget 1981. Reds best record in baseball and no-post-season because of the rules instituted under Kuhn's watch.
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    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Bowie Kuhn dead at 80

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    Dave Revering, for Vida Blue, 1977. Would have been the steal of the century, even bigger (at the time) than the Seaver trade turned out to be. Kuhn denied the trade, Finley was trying to dismantle the team and he saw that, and probably, it was a good thing for baseball at the time. Revering was a touted phenom who never panned out.
    I'm of the opinion that it was a terrible decision that continues to insult the intelligence of sentient baseball fans.

    Finley wanted to sell his players instead of losing them for next-to-nothing in free agency. Big deal. Good for him.

    Kuhn didn't want the public and the players to realize that they were "worth" more than $1 million apiece. Plus, he hated Finley. So he made up his own rules, and said the trade wasn't in the best interest of baseball.

    Finley's track record for scouting talent was pretty remarkable. Had the commissioner allowed him to break up that team and then rebuild, it probably wouldn't have taken the 12 or so years it took for the A's to return to respectability.

    I'm all for salary caps and revenue sharing. But owners should be able to buy/sell players as they see fit. If an owner repeatedly runs a team into the ground (e.g. Peter Angelos), only at that point should the commissioner's office think about meddling.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  15. #14
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Bowie Kuhn dead at 80

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    I'm of the opinion that it was a terrible decision that continues to insult the intelligence of sentient baseball fans.

    Finley wanted to sell his players instead of losing them for next-to-nothing in free agency. Big deal. Good for him.

    Kuhn didn't want the public and the players to realize that they were "worth" more than $1 million apiece. Plus, he hated Finley. So he made up his own rules, and said the trade wasn't in the best interest of baseball.

    Finley's track record for scouting talent was pretty remarkable. Had the commissioner allowed him to break up that team and then rebuild, it probably wouldn't have taken the 12 or so years it took for the A's to return to respectability.

    I'm all for salary caps and revenue sharing. But owners should be able to buy/sell players as they see fit. If an owner repeatedly runs a team into the ground (e.g. Peter Angelos), only at that point should the commissioner's office think about meddling.
    You're right, chili, Finley was a man ahead of his time.


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