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View Poll Results: Who Would Make up the All-Time Reds Outfield?

Voters
148. You may not vote on this poll
  • Gus Bell

    2 1.35%
  • Eric Davis

    79 53.38%
  • Adam Dunn

    6 4.05%
  • George Foster

    49 33.11%
  • Cesar Geronimo

    4 2.70%
  • Ival Goodman

    0 0%
  • Ken Griffey Jr.

    31 20.95%
  • Ken Griffey Sr.

    6 4.05%
  • Paul O'Neill

    3 2.03%
  • Dave Parker

    8 5.41%
  • Vada Pinson

    33 22.30%
  • Wally Post

    3 2.03%
  • Frank Robinson

    122 82.43%
  • Pete Rose

    64 43.24%
  • Edd Roush

    36 24.32%
  • Bobby Tolan

    0 0%
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Thread: Reds All-Time Outfield

  1. #61
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds All-Time Outfield

    Reds OF OPS VS the league all time, 2000 PA to get in the door.

    Code:
    OPS                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Frank Robinson             .198     .933     .735   
    2    Cy Seymour                 .174     .841     .667   
    3    Charley Jones              .172     .807     .635   
    4    Eric Davis                 .153     .877     .725   
    5    George Foster              .152     .870     .718   
    6    Pete Rose                  .124     .833     .710   
    7    Adam Dunn                  .119     .892     .774   
    8    Edd Roush                  .119     .839     .721   
    9    Ken Griffey Jr.            .110     .890     .780   
    10   Bug Holliday               .100     .823     .723
    As a franchise the Reds game has been one that was pitching and defense for 50 years and then one that was hitting centric, if you take the eras (including 19th Century) and break them up then you get the top ten as thus:

    Code:
    CINCINNATI REDS
    1876-1899
    OPS                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Charley Jones              .172     .807     .635   
    2    Bug Holliday               .100     .823     .723   
    3    Dusty Miller               .043     .788     .744   
    4    Dummy Hoy                  .011     .794     .782   
    5    Pop Corkhill              -.005     .640     .645  
    
    1900-1953
    OPS                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Cy Seymour                 .174     .841     .667   
    2    Edd Roush                  .119     .839     .721   
    3    Ival Goodman               .062     .797     .734   
    4    Mike Mitchell              .055     .732     .676   
    5    Curt Walker                .042     .819     .777   
    6    Tommy Griffith             .042     .697     .656   
    7    Pat Duncan                 .030     .776     .746   
    8    Bob Bescher                .026     .721     .695   
    9    Johnny Wyrostek            .008     .757     .749   
    10   Greasy Neale              -.026     .652     .678   
    
    1954-2006
    OPS                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Frank Robinson             .198     .933     .735   
    2    Eric Davis                 .153     .877     .725   
    3    George Foster              .152     .870     .718   
    4    Pete Rose                  .124     .833     .710   
    5    Adam Dunn                  .119     .892     .774   
    6    Ken Griffey Jr.            .110     .890     .780   
    7    Ken Griffey Sr.            .091     .810     .719   
    8    Vada Pinson                .089     .810     .721   
    9    Wally Post                 .080     .833     .752   
    10   Dave Parker                .075     .803     .728

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  3. #62
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds All-Time Outfield

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    The first is the OPS Roush compiled during the dead ball era, for not being a home run hitter at all (he had 68 in 18 seasons). But he had a ton of triples (182).
    The Reds were a big triples club back then, but the Pirates were bigger.

    The top 2 players with triples in modern times are Honus Wagner and Paul Waner, both Pirates; in fact 2 other Pirates are in the top ten too. When perusing the top National League seasons in compiling triples once again you’ll trip over a six more Pirates, including the top two with number one (Chief Wilson) logging an incredible 36, 10 more than the nearest competitor.

    Triples in the first 10 years of the 20th century

    Code:
    1900-1909
    TRIPLES                         3B     
    1    Pirates                     925   
    2    Reds                        825   
    3    Cardinals                   661   
    4    Dodgers                     642   
    5    Phillies                    614   
    6    Cubs                        593   
    7    Giants                      555   
    8    Braves                      482
    In the National League’s “Modern Era” there have only been 22 teams that had 100 triples in a season the Pirates were 13 of them, 59% of the times it was accomplished. The Reds accomplished it 5 of those times. Only the Cincinnati and the Pittsburgh franchise can claim multiple teams with 100 triples in a single season

    Code:
    TRIPLES                       YEAR     3B     
    1    Pirates                  1912      129   
    2    Pirates                  1924      122   
    3    Reds                     1926      120   
    4    Pirates                  1930      119   
    5    Pirates                  1929      116   
    T6   Pirates                  1923      111   
    T6   Reds                     1924      111   
    T8   Pirates                  1903      110   
    T8   Pirates                  1922      110   
    10   Pirates                  1926      106   
    T11  Pirates                  1925      105   
    T11  Reds                     1911      105   
    T11  Pirates                  1911      105   
    14   Pirates                  1921      104   
    15   Giants                   1911      103   
    16   Pirates                  1904      102   
    T17  Reds                     1905      101   
    T17  Cubs                     1911      101   
    T19  Reds                     1917      100   
    T19  Pirates                  1900      100   
    T19  Braves                   1921      100   
    T19  Pirates                  1928      100

  4. #63
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds All-Time Outfield

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    He is a one trick pony and one of the worst defensive outfielder I have ever seen and he has basically admitted to dogging it for the last 5 years. Dunn is not in the same ballpark as Davis, Foster, Pinson, Robinson and so on.
    Dunn's at least a two-trick pony and at this point in his career he's running laps around Foster. George had some huge seasons from ages 27-32. If Dunn steps up in his prime relative to the way Foster did, the results will be awe inspiring.

    So, did Foster dog it when he was young?
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  5. #64
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds All-Time Outfield

    So, did Foster dog it when he was young?
    I think they perception was somewhat there, in 1974 they didn't want to bring him up, despite needing a RH bat (they traded for Rettemund instead) The feeling in the FO was that he could use a season at AAA and specifically they wanted him to play some more under Vern Rapp, whom as we know the Reds felt was a strong hand to guide wayward ML youth.

  6. #65
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds All-Time Outfield

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    I think they perception was somewhat there, in 1974 they didn't want to bring him up, despite needing a RH bat (they traded for Rettemund instead) The feeling in the FO was that he could use a season at AAA and specifically they wanted him to play some more under Vern Rapp, whom as we know the Reds felt was a strong hand to guide wayward ML youth.
    Though is that dogging it or still having things to learn? I don't think it's terribly shocking that guy might not have been ready to pound major league pitching in his early 20s.

    On a side note, Grimsley for Rettenmund and Junior Kennedy - Howsam's worst trade ever?
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  7. #66
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds All-Time Outfield

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Though is that dogging it or still having things to learn? I don't think it's terribly shocking that guy might not have been ready to pound major league pitching in his early 20s.

    On a side note, Grimsley for Rettenmund and Junior Kennedy - Howsam's worst trade ever?
    Hal McRae for Roger Nelson?
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  8. #67
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds All-Time Outfield

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Hal McRae for Roger Nelson?
    The only good thing about Nelson was his nickname, Spider.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  9. #68
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds All-Time Outfield

    On a side note, Grimsley for Rettenmund and Junior Kennedy - Howsam's worst trade ever?
    Grimsley was a thorn in Sparky's side and his K rate was crap, loved him a good defense behind him that's for sure. Looking back at him I see why he was dealt, he was a generation gapper in a conservative town, he was the equivalent to everything Arroyo is today, without the K rate and teh disdain of the manager.

    Hal McRae for Roger Nelson?
    Nelson was the Royals 1968 #1 and the real deal was essentially Simpson for Nelson, two arm problems and two OF. Of course the Reds had tried McRae at 3rd (that was the position the Royals were going to use him at at the time of the trade) and decided he would never play OF in the NL so he was of no use to them on plastic is my guess. The Royals GM in consecutive winters acquired Amos Otis, Freddy Patek, John Mayberry and Hal McRae.. for basically nothing in the long run.

  10. #69
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds All-Time Outfield

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Nelson was the Royals 1968 #1 and the real deal was essentially Simpson for Nelson, two arm problems and two OF. Of course the Reds had tried McRae at 3rd (that was the position the Royals were going to use him at at the time of the trade) and decided he would never play OF in the NL so he was of no use to them on plastic is my guess. The Royals GM in consecutive winters acquired Amos Otis, Freddy Patek, John Mayberry and Hal McRae.. for basically nothing in the long run.
    You're right. It was Simpson and McRae for Nelson and Richie Scheinblum. If Nelson would have been healthy it could have been a good deal and McRae was more of an AL player (though I remember seeing him play 2B in the late 60's during a cup of coffee with the Reds).
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  11. #70
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds All-Time Outfield

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Grimsley was a thorn in Sparky's side and his K rate was crap, loved him a good defense behind him that's for sure. Looking back at him I see why he was dealt, he was a generation gapper in a conservative town, he was the equivalent to everything Arroyo is today, without the K rate and teh disdain of the manager.
    Still, it possibly cost them the division in 1974. The Dodgers had a dynamite year and perhaps there was no beating them in that division race, but Grimsley certainly would have helped.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  12. #71
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Reds All-Time Outfield

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    I based my votes for Roush, Robinson and Rose based primarily upon what they did in their careers as a Red. If I instead picked an outfield based solely upon each player's peak season as a Red, I'd probably take Robinson's 1962 season, Foster's 1977 season, and Davis's 1987 season.
    Of course, if I did that, Rose might get left off the team entirely, as I might very well take Perez's 1970 season while he was a thirdbaseman and Klu's 1954 season as a firstbaseman, leaving nowhere for Rose (Pete isn't ever going to be the pick over Morgan at second).
    Rose as the all-time pinch-hitter/super-sub?
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  13. #72
    Member PickOff's Avatar
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    Re: Reds All-Time Outfield

    I had picked Robinson, Davis, and Foster. I'm looking at Rose as an infielder. Peak periods held more sway for me - because of this and his speed/defense, Davis joins the party. Robinson is a no-brainer. Foster was more difficult - but the man was a beast. It is also worth noting that of the outfielder's (as posted by WOY above),these three are the top in the modern era for OPS vs the league.
    Thank goodness for baseball.

  14. #73
    Member BigREDSfaninKY's Avatar
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    Re: Reds All-Time Outfield

    I went with Foster, Robinson and Davis. When I think of Rose, I think of him as a third basemen.

  15. #74
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    Re: Reds All-Time Outfield

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Dunn's at least a two-trick pony and at this point in his career he's running laps around Foster. George had some huge seasons from ages 27-32. If Dunn steps up in his prime relative to the way Foster did, the results will be awe inspiring.

    So, did Foster dog it when he was young?
    True Dunn is a two trick pony, power and walks. My point is some may think is a good/great player but he doesnt deserve to be included with some of the great Reds of the past.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

  16. #75
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: Reds All-Time Outfield

    Adam Dunn has been very, very good. I continue to wonder why people don't see that.

    My picks were Davis, Robinson, and Rose. Foster and Dunn would have been next. I feel like when all is said and done that Adam Dunn will be one of the top 3 and it won't be close. I just hope we get the chance to watch him for many years in a Reds uniform.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton


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