Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 12 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 171

Thread: So how was the off season anyway?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,671

    So how was the off season anyway?

    The reds may well be involved in another deal or two before opening day. There was a bit of caterwauling about what a bad off season the reds were having.

    Understanding that it's spring and...well, everything looks better in the spring? How do you feel about the off season now?

    They way I saw it, Krivsky needed to...

    Find a shortstop. Not three guys who can do part of the job, but one guy.
    He's pretty much done that. You can argue with his choice, but the reds have a guy who deserves a full time shortstop gig far more than Clayton, Aurlia or Castro.

    Get the elephant out of centerfield. It has become increasingly apparent that Junior isn't really a centerfielder anymore. He's done that. Between Freel, Denorfia, Hamilton, Hopper and Crosby, there are any number of true centerfielders in camp. Even Junior has to see that the team is better with Junior in right and one of those guys in center.

    sign a righthanded platoon bat. Either Aurlia or somebody like that. We got Jeff Conine. This is a tough one. You want a decent player here, but you don't want somebody good enough that Junior can say..."Hey...why doesn't this guy start in right and I'll be in center." but you want somebody good enough that you don't mind sitting Hatteberg for him against lefties. Conine fits that profile about as well as anybody.

    Lock up the two big starters. I never dreamed the reds would actually do this, but they have their two best starting pitchers locked up for the foreseeable future. That's ...That's huge.

    The reds shed Rey Olmedo, Willioam Bergolla, Brandon Claussen Brendan Harris David Shafer, Michalik and Jason Standridge and picked up Saarloos, Livingston, Keppinger and Gill.

    In a move worthy of Jim Bowden, Krivsky snuck two rule v picks into the system who both might be capable of making the roster and lasting out the season. Even if Josh Hamilton is only lefty pinch hitting power off the bench that can run and play outfield D, he's worth the money and most likely the roster spot.

    The reds paid a lot of money to shed themselves of Jason LaRue. They then replaced him with Chad Moeller who is bad enough that they may not even carry three catchers this year. Crazy like a fox. If Moeller will actually go to AAA, that's a coup.

    Feeling he had four starters, he didn't overspend in the free agent market. He's giving Belisle a clear shot at a starting job and has guys in place if Belisle fails (Saarloos, Santos). Here again, you can argue with the perception that he has four starters, but given that he felt that way, he's upgraded the tail of the rotation from what we are used to seeing.

    He rebuilt his bullpen without dramatically overpaying for a closer. From where I sit, I think he's brought in too many high priced vets with too many innings on their arms, but there are going to be a ton of guys at AAA that he can call up once Narron slags the vets. Many of the vets (Guardado, Hermanson, Wilson, Santos, Lightenberg, Meadows) are essntially no-cost signings.

    Given that they guy has been on the job for a year, I think the way he has turned over the roster has been superb. Without breaks, the reds are not contenders yet, but they are much closer to a baseball team than they were 14 months ago. The reds may have a "rebound" year where they only win 78 games or so and that could be percieved as a failure, but considering where Dan O'brien left them, that would be extraordinary.

    Plug Votto in at first and Baily into the rotation, and darn good things could happen in 08.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    21,203

    Re: So how was the off season anyway?

    I guess I must respectfully disagree. You talk about things looking good in 08.

    Who has Wayne added this offseason that is likely to help in 2008? Maybe Sarloos and the Rule V guys, that's it.

    It's easy to add mediocre vets when you have 30+ million to spend. I'm talking about Gonzales, Stanton, Cormier, Conine and other guys Wayne added that frankly most teams do not want.

    Wayne had the money to add a high upside starter like Penny. He certainly had the money to pick up a better bat than Conine. He could've also upgraded 1b and kept Hattenberg as a bench player. He had a lot of options with all the cash he had.

    After spending 30 million this offseason, I'm not sure this 07 team is better than the team that started the 06 season. We are going to feel the loss of Kearns, Lopez, and Aurillia this year. I'm not saying the Reds had to keep them, but some attempt should've been made at replacing their bats. Conine just isn't going to cut it. If Freel doesn't snap out of the slump he had last year, this offense is really going to sputter.

    The bullpen is still going to cause a lot of headaches.

    The big upside is having Sarloos (or Belise) in the #5 slot in the rotation instead of the Lizard, Michelak and that other dreck we saw last year. That's the only step forward I see.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  4. #3
    Member cacollinsmba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    139

    Re: So how was the off season anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post

    Wayne had the money to add a high upside starter like Penny. He certainly had the money to pick up a better bat than Conine. He could've also upgraded 1b and kept Hattenberg as a bench player. He had a lot of options with all the cash he had.
    I'm not sure why you're using Penny as an example. He wasn't a free agent. For us to acquire him would require Dunn rather than cash. That wasn't feasible.

    I don't think the reds committing to another Milton, i.e. $10 mil + annually to someone of the Meche or Lilly variety does not make any sense.

    I would agree with you if the Reds had turned down the opportunity to sign Zito, or possibly even Maddux for a decent deal or Rocket for half a season.

    If you are an impact pitcher, why would you consider the Reds this season? The Reds had to overpay to get Milton. How much will they have to over pay for a pitcher that doesn't suck? I think we were lucky to keep Harang and Arroyo in the fold. I'm not sure many other starters want to follow their lead.

    I'm also not sure who you'd pick to upgrade 1B over Hatteberg. Frankly, I don't think upgrading 1B is one of our glaring problems. Hatteberg isn't an ideal 1B and isn't exactly young, but I'm not sure who you acquire to put there. Besides, how much should this team trade away to get a 1B when Votto could be given a shot in a year or so.
    Xavier University Football - undefeated since 1973

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    14,063

    Re: So how was the off season anyway?

    I agree with the dfs point of view. A baseball team needs stars and depth. I don't think Krivsky added stars this off-season, although Hamilton could be one. He did add a lot of depth. He has also kept the minor league system intact. So he gets pretty high marks from me.

    As he continues to draft guys -- remember all the high draft picks the Reds have in '07 -- promote guys, and pick up ok inexpensive veterans, the team will have the depth to survive the long 162-game season, with all of its injuries, demotions, slumps, etc. Right now, the team's depth looks better than in a number of years.

    What Krivsky hasn't done so far is add big impact players. Those cost lots of money these days. I had hoped he would get one for the rotation -- a proven starter for a 1 -3 rotation slot. He didn't. Instead, Kriv went for less expensive options like Saarloos, and spent to retain his big 2.

    Over time, if the team is going to be successful, the Reds will have to spend for a couple of key free agents. But Rome wasn't built in a day.

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,671

    Re: So how was the off season anyway?

    Who has Wayne added this offseason that is likely to help in 2008? Maybe Sarloos and the Rule V guys, that's it.
    Saarloos, ruleV pickups. Livingston from the waiver wire, Jerry Gil, he's got 5 legitimate centerfield candidates AND his "real" shortstop.

    Take the core of the current team and say half of those new additions guys "develop" in some marginal way. Then add in Votto and Bailey...and there you go, you've got a baseball team!

    Add in ANOTHER decent off season where he correctly identifies the strengths and weaknesses that he has and he could then think about adding that impact player that can push his core over the top.

    When Dan O'Brien left, this team was far, far from a good team. They are much less further away now. Yes, the offense is worse, but the pitching is much better than what Dan and Jimbo left.
    Last edited by dfs; 03-22-2007 at 04:36 PM.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    We have pitchers now?!
    Posts
    1,017

    Re: So how was the off season anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    When Dan O'Brien left, this team was far, far from a good team. They are much less further away now. Yes, the offense is worse, but the pitching is much better than what Dan and Jimbo left.
    A monkey could pitch better than what Dan'O and Jimbo left...
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled."
    -Hunter S. Thompson

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Newport Beach, CA
    Posts
    8,066

    Re: So how was the off season anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    Saarloos, ruleV pickups. Livingston from the waiver wire, Jerry Gil, he's got 5 legitimate centerfield candidates AND his "real" shortstop.

    Take the core of the current team and say half of those new additions guys "develop" in some marginal way. Then add in Votto and Bailey...and there you go, you've got a baseball team!

    Add in ANOTHER decent off season where he correctly identifies the strengths and weaknesses that he has and he could then think about adding that impact player that can push his core over the top.

    You're obviously on puppy-uppers.

    Rem

  9. #8
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Colorado's eastern plains
    Posts
    11,232

    Re: So how was the off season anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog View Post
    You're obviously on puppy-uppers.

    Rem
    What? You're not sold on Livingston or Gil?

  10. #9
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    7,441

    Re: So how was the off season anyway?

    The good: Hamilton and Burton picks. Upgraded defense at SS from hideous to above average/good. Signed AH and BA to reasonable LTC. Brought in some folks to battle out for the #5 spot that while not world beaters, aren't the Mayes level of crap we had last year. Jr moved to RF. I'd say those are some pretty strong moves.

    The kinda good: Having Livingston stashed away at AAA might prove usefull later on. LaRue traded and some sallary sent packing.

    The bad: Milton and Loshe seemingly penciled into the starting rotation. No solid #3 type brought into the rotation. Weathers and Stanton (not horrible choices, IMO but certinally not the best ones either) in the bullpen.

    The ugly: Conine, Moeller, Belhorn, Crosby.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 03-22-2007 at 04:54 PM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  11. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Newport Beach, CA
    Posts
    8,066

    Re: So how was the off season anyway?

    Redread is the only one above the line that seems to have paid attention this winter---and he wasn't even here!

    It's been well documented here that Krivsky has spent in the area of $20M in the offseason simply to bring in dregs while he could have actually spent the money on helpful players.

    Jeff Conine! Come on! Bubba Cosby! Come on! Stanton, Loshe, Cormier, Moeller! Come on!

    The Reds paid Conine $2.1M and the Phils replaced Jeff with a better bat and a better glove for $875K. Krivsky, basically paid KC $3M to take LaRue in order to replace him with a catcher that is decidedly inferior defensively and who I have great worries that will return to his old ways with the stick. He gave a contract extention to both Cormier and Hatteberg---something neither of them should have gotten. Stanton is toast. Weathers soon a good bet to follow. Bottom line is that he could have fielded a better team by replacing those guys with less money and spent the rest of it on a solid #3 starter----something that, in this woefully weak division, might be as close to a lock as things come.

    The weak division is one thing that keeps me optomistic about the Reds this year. The other thing that will have to be done is to be willing to cut your losses earliy if you want to stay in the race and take your chances on the kids. If that doesn't work, you're rebuilding anyway.

    Rem

  12. #11
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    portland, oregon
    Posts
    14,747

    Re: So how was the off season anyway?

    Didn't you get the memo?

    Everything sucks and Krivsky/Narron are morons.

    If you think otherwise you must either be stupid or on drugs.

    Oh, and they're really building a winner in DC!
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  13. #12
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    21,203

    Re: So how was the off season anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by cacollinsmba View Post
    I'm not sure why you're using Penny as an example. He wasn't a free agent. For us to acquire him would require Dunn rather than cash. That wasn't feasible.
    He was a quality pitcher that was available on the the trade market.
    The point was that other than Sarloos (good trade), Wayne didn't really use the trade market to fill the team's needs. Maybe LA and the Reds didn't match up, but the point is that there was quality pitching available via trade.

    It's easy when you have 30+ million in your pocket to just grab FAs. But Wayne didn't grab any good ones. He signed guys who at best will be average, and that's a stretch. Not a very good risk/reward profile. In addition, he gave them multiyear deals despite the fact that they are old and declining.

    I can almost guarantee you that either Stanton or Weathers will be a total disaster in 2008, just due to age. Heck, Stanton is 40. He may crash this year. That's not building for the future. When you sign a guy like Stanton for more than 1 year, you are trying to win for this current year, and willing to accept the risk it will blow up in your face in later years.. Not an appropriate move for the Reds, IMO.







    Quote Originally Posted by cacollinsmba View Post

    I don't think the reds committing to another Milton, i.e. $10 mil + annually to someone of the Meche or Lilly variety does not make any sense.
    This is where I disagree. Lily got an average of 10 million per year. He just turned 31. He's put in very solid seasons three out of the last 4 years.

    Look at how the Reds spent 10 million.. 2 million for Cormier, 2 million for Conine, I think about 4.5 million for Lohse, and when you add Castro, I think you are either over 10 million or very close to 10 million.

    Which team spent their 10 million more wisely? Wouldn't you trade Cormier, Castro, Conine, and Lohse for Lily? Also, Lilly will only be 35 in his last year. That's a much better risk than Stanton being 41 or 42.







    Quote Originally Posted by cacollinsmba View Post
    If you are an impact pitcher, why would you consider the Reds this season?
    Exactly the same way the Cubs and Royals convinced people. You sell the team. Even the Pirates are occasionally able to talk a mid level FA to coming to their team.





    Quote Originally Posted by cacollinsmba View Post
    The Reds had to overpay to get Milton. How much will they have to over pay for a pitcher that doesn't suck?
    But they did overpay for pitchers that are going to suck.. Stanton and Cormier. Maybe Lohse.



    Quote Originally Posted by cacollinsmba View Post
    I'm also not sure who you'd pick to upgrade 1B over Hatteberg. Frankly, I don't think upgrading 1B is one of our glaring problems. Hatteberg isn't an ideal 1B and isn't exactly young, but I'm not sure who you acquire to put there. Besides, how much should this team trade away to get a 1B when Votto could be given a shot in a year or so.
    We can't expect Hattenberg to repeat his last season's performance, especially since he doesn't have Aurillia to platoon with this year. Why is 1b a concern? Because right now we have a stop gop guy there with very little power who is declining. Why not look at the spots on this team that have old/declining guys and try to upgrade with young guys who will hopefully improve?
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  14. #13
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    portland, oregon
    Posts
    14,747

    Re: So how was the off season anyway?

    Ok, now that I have that off my chest I'd like to say that I think the moves made by the Reds this off season were reasonable for a team that appears to be trying to build towards 2008 and which had too many missing pieces to be truly competitive this year. While I may not agree with everything Krivsky has done this off season (Jeff Conine springs to mind) I think I can see a method to his supposed madness.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  15. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Newport Beach, CA
    Posts
    8,066

    Re: So how was the off season anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    Didn't you get the memo?
    The crayon was smeared together and it was tought to read.

    Rem

  16. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Newport Beach, CA
    Posts
    8,066

    Re: So how was the off season anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I think I can see a method to his supposed madness.
    It usually helps if you're mad.

    Rem


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25