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Thread: Narron intends to break up left-handed bats

  1. #1
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Narron intends to break up left-handed bats

    Here I am all optimistic about the 2007 season, and then Narron tosses out the idea of Dunn batting 6th. Horrible idea. I'm afraid Narron is going to hold this team back from maxing out it's potential.

    Narron intends to break up left-handed bats
    Reds notebook
    BY JOHN FAY | JFAY@ENQUIRER.COM

    ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. - Ken Griffey Jr.'s absence has kept Reds manager Jerry Narron from trotting out his projected Opening Day lineup this spring.

    That hasn't kept him from penciling out lineups.

    "I've been messing with what it would be like with Josh Hamilton in Griffey's spot," he said.


    That spot might not be the No. 3 spot, where Griffey hit 99 times in 104 starts last year.

    Narron wants to split up the left-handers - Griffey or Hamilton, Adam Dunn and Scott Hatteberg. Narron prefers doing it with them in the second, fourth and sixth spots.

    "Then it comes down to Hatteberg or Dunn in the two-hole, Griffey fourth or Dunn fourth, and Hatteberg, Griff or Dunn sixth," he said. "That's the only way you can do it."

    Ryan Freel, a right-handed hitter, will lead off. Brandon Phillips probably will hit in the third spot and Edwin Encarnacion in the fifth spot.

    "With Brandon, you know he's going to give you good at-bats," Narron said. "I like the idea of his speed up top. Eddie has a chance to be a very good RBI guy in the fifth or even third hole."

    David Ross and Alex Gonzalez will bat seventh and eighth. Narron isn't sure who will be in which spot.

    Another objective of Narron's is to keep things more stable than last year, when the Reds had a National League-high 140 different lineups.

    "I've love to have a set lineup every day," he said, "where Doug Flynn plays once every two weeks for Joe Morgan or Davey Concepcion."

    BRAY MATTER: Left-hander Bill Bray, who was coming off shoulder stiffness, took a ball off the tip of his finger in fielding drills. He won't throw again until at least Monday.

    The Reds are preparing for the possibility of Bray starting the year on the disabled list. He'll be held out of "A" games, so he can be put on the list retroactively.

    "First thing you do in a case like that is pitch him in a minor-league game and see how he's doing," general manager Wayne Krivsky said. "That's the first step."

    By starting Bray on the DL, it would open a spot - at least temporarily - for Rule 5 pick Jared Burton.

    But don't jump to that conclusion.

    "We're not saying Bray won't be with us Opening Day," Narron said. "He's definitely not out. But we're getting close to making a decision."

    The Reds are saying they like Burton, a 25-year-old right-hander with a 90 mph slider.

    "He's shown a great arm," Narron said. "He's shown the ability to throw strikes. He's shown movement with his pitches. He's created a couple of jams, but he's been able to get out of them."

    GRIFFEY UPDATE: Griffey took batting practice Friday. There's a possibility that he'll play today, but don't read too much into that.

    "There's a possibility every day for everybody," Narron said. "We'll see how he feels when he comes in."

    PITCHING SCHEDULE: Eric Milton will start in a minor-league game Monday. Left-hander Bobby Livingston will start Monday's game against Boston.

    Livingston is competing for the fifth spot in the rotation.

    INJURY REPORT: The Reds brought seven non-roster players to St. Pete to fill in for injured players. One of the non-roster guys, Enrique Cruz, started at third base.

    Here's the injury update:

    Jerry Gil (elbow) had an MRI done.

    Javier Valentin's hamstring is tight. He'll be available maybe today, probably Sunday.

    Bubba Crosby (calf) was available to play.

    Hatteberg (tight groin) could be available today.

    Gary Majewski (shoulder) will take two days off, then throw Sunday.

    Juan Castro (elbow) was used as the designated hitter Friday night.

    Bill Bray took a ball off a finger on his pitching hand in fielding drills. Adam Dunn (flu) was at the complex but did not play Friday.

    CONINE TO RETURN: Jeff Conine, who left camp to attend the funeral of his father-in-law, will return to camp tonight. He probably will play Monday.

    SEEN AND HEARD: Non-roster players Mike Flannery, Wes Wilkerson, Drew Anderson, Paul Janish, Dan Conway, Tyrell Godwin, Enrique Cruz and Cody Strait made the trip to help the depleted Reds. "Good for them," GM Wayne Krivsky said. "It's another day of big-league meal money." In most cases, that's an extra $35.

    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...703240443/1071

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  3. #2
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Narron intends to break up left-handed bats

    Well, the good news is that with as much as Narron tinkers with the line up, Dunn woln't be in the 6th spot for long.

    Then again, the bad news is that with as much as Narron tinkers with the line up, nobody knows where they will be for long.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Narron intends to break up left-handed bats

    Jerry Gil (elbow) had an MRI done.

    Javier Valentin's hamstring is tight. He'll be available maybe today, probably Sunday.

    Bubba Crosby (calf) was available to play.

    Hatteberg (tight groin) could be available today.

    Gary Majewski (shoulder) will take two days off, then throw Sunday.

    Juan Castro (elbow) was used as the designated hitter Friday night.

    Bill Bray took a ball off a finger on his pitching hand in fielding drills. Adam Dunn (flu) was at the complex but did not play Friday.

    I know I gripe about the Reds medical staff a lot, but with the number of tight muscles, hamstrings, calfs etc going on you guys think the suspect quality of the Reds medical staff plays a role? I mean, if they couldn't figure out that Eric Milton was injured last year, is it a strech to think they aren't setting up good streching/training excersize programs/regimens which results in these various injuries?

    Obivously, they have nothing to do with Dunn's flu or prexisting shoulder issues with Majic, and now Bray (then again, they might not be helping those arms heal correctly either).
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Narron intends to break up left-handed bats

    Edwin Encarnacion - Third Baseman Mar. 23 - 10:35 pm et

    Reds manager Jerry Narron said he's leaning toward batting left-handers second, fourth and sixth, which would likely put Brandon Phillips in the third spot and Edwin Encarnacion fifth.

    Yeah, lineups don't make much of a difference over the course of the year, but Narron and the Pirates' Jim Tracy are the worst about costing their teams runs with their formations. The Reds might have their two best hitters -- Encarnacion and Adam Dunn -- hitting fifth and sixth respectively. It's more likely that Dunn will hit cleanup initially, but we'll never underestimate Narron's inability to put guys where they belong. It doesn't help that the team has insisted on respecting Ken Griffey Jr. by keeping him high in the lineup. If a left-hander needs to bat sixth, he's probably the best choice.

    http://rotoworld.com/content/clubhou...LB&majteam=CIN

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    Re: Narron intends to break up left-handed bats

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    I know I gripe about the Reds medical staff a lot, but with the number of tight muscles, hamstrings, calfs etc going on you guys think the suspect quality of the Reds medical staff plays a role? I mean, if they couldn't figure out that Eric Milton was injured last year, is it a strech to think they aren't setting up good streching/training excersize programs/regimens which results in these various injuries?

    Obivously, they have nothing to do with Dunn's flu or prexisting shoulder issues with Majic, and now Bray (then again, they might not be helping those arms heal correctly either).
    I think you'd be surprised at the number of guys around the league who have sore muscles right now. Generally its not the doctors fault. After one of the first years of Wood/Prior going down to season ending injury, the Cubs fired their whole medical staff. The number of injuries nearly doubled the next year.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

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    Re: Narron intends to break up left-handed bats

    I'm already not missing Narron and he;s still here. :dancingco

  8. #7
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Narron intends to break up left-handed bats

    Narron's logic makes me physically ill. Here is the 2-6 part of the lineup in decscending order of OPS vL

    Dunn: .241/.359/.477 (.836)
    EE: .248/.368/.460 (.828)
    Phillips vL: .299/.351/.423 (.774)
    Conine: .269/.352.419 (.771)
    Griffey: .232/.300/.461 (.761)


    So, if you take OPS as a good proxy for overall production, Brandon Phillips is at best the best #3 option. The idea of EE and Dunn batting 5th and 6th just shows how clueless Narron is. Griffey gets eaten for breakfast by lefties. It should be:

    2 EE
    3 Dunn
    4 Phillips
    5 Griffey
    6 Conine

    AARRRGH!
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Narron intends to break up left-handed bats

    I won't get started on Narron, but IMO breaking up the lefties in a lineup is overrated.

    Sure, opponents can bring their LOOGY for more than one batter...but having a big bat lefty (say Dunn) followed by another (say Griffey) also forces a right handed pitcher (which are the majority, especially in our division) to have to pitch to at least one of them. No hiding.

    IMO this reflects an obsession of Narron's with the end-game: Bullpen, pinch hitting and Defensive Replacements. He doesn't want to LOSE a game at the end (well nobody does...but...)

    Problem is most games are really won or lost in first few innings. It's no use having a great end-game strategy if you're not "in it" at the end.

    I'm afraid Narron will put up lineups like this, then complain about the team not hitting with RISP.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

    http://dalmady.blogspot.com

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Narron intends to break up left-handed bats

    My brain hurts every time I read Narron say something.
    Brandon Phillips batting third boggles the mind.

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    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Narron intends to break up left-handed bats

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    I won't get started on Narron, but IMO breaking up the lefties in a lineup is overrated.

    Sure, opponents can bring their LOOGY for more than one batter...but having a big bat lefty (say Dunn) followed by another (say Griffey) also forces a right handed pitcher (which are the majority, especially in our division) to have to pitch to at least one of them. No hiding.
    Case in point: The Pirates didn't seem to have a problem back in the 70's with Dave Parker hitting third and Willie Stargell batting fourth.



    I posted some of this on Reds Live, but I think it fits in well here, too. The lineup can be structured R-L-R-L-R-L in the first six spots in a better way than John Fay is reporting, and it would allow for minimal juggling when the right-handed halves of the platoon positions start against lefty pitchers. Try this on for size:

    vs. RHP
    Freel cf
    Dunn lf
    Encarnacion 3b
    Griffey rf
    Phillips 2b
    Hatteberg 1b
    Ross c
    Gonzalez ss
    <pitcher>

    vs. LHP
    Freel cf
    Dunn lf
    Encarnacion 3b
    Griffey rf
    Phillips 2b
    Conine 1b
    Ross c
    Gonzalez ss
    <pitcher>


    If Griffey is not ready by Opening Day:

    vs. RHP
    Freel cf
    Hatteberg 1b
    Encarnacion 3b
    Dunn lf
    Phillips 2b
    Hamilton rf
    Ross c
    Gonzalez ss
    <pitcher>

    vs. LHP
    Freel cf
    Denorfia rf
    Encarnacion 3b
    Dunn lf
    Phillips 2b
    Conine 1b
    Ross c
    Gonzalez ss
    <pitcher>
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

  12. #11
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Narron intends to break up left-handed bats

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    I posted some of this on Reds Live, but I think it fits in well here, too. The lineup can be structured R-L-R-L-R-L in the first six spots in a better way than John Fay is reporting...
    And let us remember that nothing is for certain b/c of a John Fay article. Narron's quotes in the article are all "maybe this or maybe that". He is quoted as saying Adam could hit 2nd, 4th or 6th. No one agrees with him hitting 6th. I will not jump, yell or rant until I see it.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  13. #12
    Firin Away Jr's Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Narron intends to break up left-handed bats

    Another objective of Narron's is to keep things more stable than last year, when the Reds had a National League-high 140 different lineups.




    Holy smoke Batman.

  14. #13
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Narron intends to break up left-handed bats

    Good grief.

    Get your best hitters the most at bats, it's a simple logic that will help you score runs..those win games...shocking that some managers don't understand it, they would rather sabotage the lineup because they are afraid of a lefty bullpenner late in the game.
    Go Gators!

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    Re: Narron intends to break up left-handed bats

    Adam Dunn vs. LHP
    .270/.393/.503, 11 HR in 184 AB.
    I hope it's never sunny in Philly again.

  16. #15
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Narron intends to break up left-handed bats

    In 587 plate appearances in 2006, Brandon Phillips walked only 35 times. Despite having a respectable .276 batting average last season, he put up an abysmal .324 on-base percentage.

    For his career, Brandon Phillips has a gouge-my-eyes-out .290 on-base percentage, and he's taken only 54 walks in 1,049 plate appearances. That's only one walk for every 19.43 plate appearances.

    This spring in 51 plate appearances, Brandon Phillips has taken exactly one walk.

    There's not many worse things a manager can do to a lineup than ensuring the presence of an out-making machine squarely in the middle of the lineup. If Brandon Phillips is batting third, then prepare yourselves for an ungodly number of killed rallies due to his propensity for swinging at garbage out of the strike zone and making far too many outs.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.


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