Ethical question: Taking stuff from restaurants

[Ltlabner]

Well, what if you lend a friend your copy of a CD (which you purchased), knowing that he will likely burn said CD to his computer (though you aren't certain he will); ultimately he does burn the CD: are both you and your friend guilty of theft? Or is just he guilty?

Do you not lend friends your CDs/DVDs for this reason? Why or why not?

It's an honest set of questions, not a trap or anything.

Very interesting question.

I guess it depends on how certain you are that said friend will copy the CD. If you know they are borrowing it specifically because they want to copy it, then I'd say you are guilty as well for 'facilitation' (so to speak).

If it's only a possibility that he 'could' burn it and it's unclear whether they will, then my gut reaction would be you are in the clear. You paid for it, and a reasonable person should be able to loan items to friends without the expectation of policing their friends behavior with the items.

Sorta like if I loan my car to a buddy who I know drinks, but I don't know he's going out drinking tonight, and he gets a DUI that's all on him IMO. But if he has a drinking problem and I know he's going out tonight and loan him my car then I'm on the hook for some level of culpability for the DUI.

I don't lend CD's to friends mostly because I either (1) forget I loaned them out and never get them back (2) I've sold off most of my collection except for the really good stuff I don't want to lose track of.

[919191]

What's everyone's opinion on file-sharing and "free" downloads?

I've downloaded several shows from several trader-friendly artists. Usually they are soundboard rrecordings made by tapers with the OK of the artist. For example, I have probably downloaded 20 or so Todd Snider shows. Sometimes I learm about them through this site- http://eighteenminutes.com/- I guess he even uses the site for consultation on set lists from previous gigs in cities, so I don't feel like a thief in this case. This is the only way I download music.

[George Anderson]

True story...When I was a kid we went to a Holiday Inn while on vacation in Florida. When we got home my mother mistakedly packed one of Holiday Inn towels. My mother being the saint she is had a guilty conscience that she mistakedly took a towel,so she paid for the towel to be shipped back to the hotel in Florida. She actually got a letter from Holiday Inn thanking her for her honesty. I do admire her for her honesty but we do tease her about it still to this day.

[kaldaniels]

Alright fess up, who's stealing chairs from restaurants?

Did anyone see the special on 20/20 or one of those shows a few years back about these middle-class suburbanite kleptos....they'd still furniture from their neighbors and steal non-stop from dept stores just as a thrill. Very sad, but I'm sorry I laughed at how pathetic they were.

[Spring~Fields]

This person thinks I overreacted, and actually referred to this as a "victimless crime" (because this is a large corporate-owned place) and claims that such restaurants all but expect this behavior.

Do the ultimate test, let them see you take something of his/hers just to see how they respond and react.

I'll just bet you that he/she will have a different view and reaction for you.

[ColoradoHigh]

I applaud your judgement. The act of thievery, is not dependent on the victim's perception of the loss or their ability to afford the loss.

If there is a next time, and should you have the opportunity, pick up a couple of glasses at his/her place and let them know that it's OK, they won't miss them. I would bet thet their response will be less than civil. You will have made your point. If only more people had your courage.

[Ltlabner]

Do the ultimate test, let them see you take something of his/hers just to see how they respond and react.

I'll just bet you that he/she will have a different view and reaction for you.

If you do this, and they freak out, calmly remind them they can file a home owners claim which sticks it to 'the man', or State Farm in this case. It's victimless ya know.

Of course, when their home owners policy goes up they may disagree. But hey, as long as some big, bad, mean, nasty corporation gets hosed, it's all good.

[vaticanplum]

Why did they do it, chili? Did they want the glasses (in which case they should have, as some have said, asked for them), do you think it's a psychological thing, or are they broke? I'm guessing it's not the last option, since they're eating out...but I would like to point out to some of you who may not have been in this position in the past that I once used the same plastic cup for four months because I could not afford to buy a glass or second cup. The stupid thing was meant to be one of those single-use party cups, it was cracked from washing and I had to drink out of it very particularly so as not to cut my lip. It was my everything cup, although pretty much the only thing I was drinking was water. Now, of course, I was not eating out at this time, and I never would have stolen a glass from somewhere, but that cup thing just rings a personal bell for me.

I'm just interested to know what you think the reasons behind this are before I pass judgment. It seems like such an odd thing to steal.

[LoganBuck]

You were absolutely right cincinnati chilli. I goofed up and accidently voted for "I do it all the time" so edit that count.

[cincinnati chili]

Why did they do it, chili? Did they want the glasses (in which case they should have, as some have said, asked for them), do you think it's a psychological thing, or are they broke? I'm guessing it's not the last option, since they're eating out...but I would like to point out to some of you who may not have been in this position in the past that I once used the same plastic cup for four months because I could not afford to buy a glass or second cup. The stupid thing was meant to be one of those single-use party cups, it was cracked from washing and I had to drink out of it very particularly so as not to cut my lip. It was my everything cup, although pretty much the only thing I was drinking was water. Now, of course, I was not eating out at this time, and I never would have stolen a glass from somewhere, but that cup thing just rings a personal bell for me.

I'm just interested to know what you think the reasons behind this are before I pass judgment. It seems like such an odd thing to steal.

The person who did this did not do this out of fiancial need, or perceived financial need. It was more out of a desire to (1) have glasses that said the name of the restaurant and (2) have a good laugh.

I didn't think it was funny. Like, FCB said, I'm not a teenager anymore.

I've talked it over with this person, who agrees it wasn't a very bright thing to do, but still thinks I overreacted. I can live with that.

[WebScorpion]

I think once you have kids, you see the whole world differently. When I was young, (and smoking,) I stole ashtrays with logos from a few bars I liked. It's not inconcievable that I would have taken a glass or two for the same reasons, utility and having branded items vs. generic. But now that I have kids, I wouldn't dream of picking something up. Anything I do comes with the unwritten qualification, "What kind of example is this for the kids?" I quit smoking, getting drunk, stealing, swearing, picking my nose, drinking out of the milk jug, leaving clothes and/or trash all over the house/yard, and driving aggressively all for the kids. I think I'm a better person for it, but that's just my opinion. I'm guessing your friends don't have kids ... if they do, they're common thieves AND bad parents. Hope they're not really close friends.

[15fan]

chili -

IMO, the bigger and more important question was what in the heck were you doing eating at one of those nameless, faceless, soul-less restaurant chains in the first place?

[registerthis]

What's everyone's opinion on file-sharing and "free" downloads?

I went through a period where I downloaded a LOT of material, back when Napster and Audio Galaxy were in full swing. I justified it by going on about how the record industry was raking customers over the coals, and how the artists see very little of the proceeds of an album sale anyway.

I still feel that way, BTW. But my conscience eventually got the better of me, and I don't download illictly anymore. All of my music now comes from iTunes, used CD stores, or from my friends.

The exception to the above is when I get one of those hideously annoying (and likely illegal) copy-protected discs that don't allow me to download the songs onto my iPod. Screw that, I say, and right over to my illegal downloading program I go. I refuse to pay for an album twice.

[bucksfan]

I will admit to having taken a glass from a restaurant/bar back in college days. I also admit to it being wrong to do and now, 20 years removed from those days, certainly see the error in my ways then, even though I also viewed my actions as relatively "victimless" back then.

Nowadays I am right there with WebScorpion with respect to my modified actions. Plus in general I am just more aware of how my actions affect people around me and actually reflect on the type of person I want to be, both for myself and my daughter.

If these friends were people at a similar stage in life as I am now, I'd be appalled as you said and generally just tell them to grow up. If they were dumb college kids as I was when I did stupid stuff like that, I'd have to be somewhat more "understanding", but in my "wisdom" I'd have to discourage them from doing such things.

[MrsK]

um...

i took a coffee mug from a Denny's restaurant for a guy named Denny - that was 11 years ago.

i feel stupid, because yes, stealing is stealing.

as for the file sharing and downloading of stuff from the internet, i'm guilty there too.

i'm not sure you over-reacted - it's good to see that you took a stand and hopefully your friends will learn from you.

wow - i wonder what else i have to sort through and figure out what i did wrong?!?!

this really makes a person think about their actions...