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Thread: David Ross

  1. #46
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    Re: David Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    at GABP, I don't give credence to "almost home runs." And no one else should, either!

    At most other parks, those aren't even warning track shots. The cold served to "normalize" GABP last night.

    I'm not giving up on Ross, I'm pointing out why I'm worried about him. He doesn't have a track record as a regular catcher. And I certainly don't think the guys behind him are any better than he- Moeller is AAAA, and I don't understand the love around here for the Latin Love Machine, other than having a great nickname, courtesy of Red Hot Mama. The numbers show Valentin to be a very poor pinch hitter.
    On any "normal" night, I would agree with your assessment of "almost home runs" at GABP. But the ball simply was not carrying last night. He may have gotten under it a bit, but even in other ball parks, that shot along with a couple of others would have been dingers with any help from Mother Nature. The ball might as well have been filled with lead last night.

    It was a frustrating game to watch because of it: The Reds absolutely crushed a number of pitches - most ended up in outs (one ended up as a very long single because Dunner thought he hit number 3.) The Cubs, meanwhile, nickeled and dimed their way to 4 runs. Funny game, this national pastime of ours.

    El Loverboy is muy bueno off the bench and is a serviceable backup catcher. Ross is never going to be Johnny Bench - maybe not even Dan Bilardello, but he's still our best option despite the fact that 12% of the active ML roster plays behind the dish.
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  3. #47
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: David Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by Cant Touch This View Post
    On any "normal" night, I would agree with your assessment of "almost home runs" at GABP. But the ball simply was not carrying last night. He may have gotten under it a bit, but even in other ball parks, that shot along with a couple of others would have been dingers with any help from Mother Nature. The ball might as well have been filled with lead last night.

    It was a frustrating game to watch because of it: The Reds absolutely crushed a number of pitches - most ended up in outs (one ended up as a very long single because Dunner thought he hit number 3.) The Cubs, meanwhile, nickeled and dimed their way to 4 runs. Funny game, this national pastime of ours.

    El Loverboy is muy bueno off the bench and is a serviceable backup catcher. Ross is never going to be Johnny Bench - maybe not even Dan Bilardello, but he's still our best option despite the fact that 12% of the active ML roster plays behind the dish.

    I was at the game, and had a totally different feel for it. The Cubs hit a number of hard hit balls right at guys. The Reds struck out a lot, and hit a bunch of pop-ups. 2-3 balls to the warning track- they were not crushed, from my vantage point, never in any danger of going out. Lilly had the Reds off balance the entire evening.

    Dunn hit a laser beam off the wall, that rocketed right back to the RF'er, which is why it was only a single, well, that and his admiring of it as well, as you said.

    I agree that Dave Ross is the best we have. I'd play him again today and see if he can swing his way out of it. He certainly has some pop; he absolutely crushed some balls last year. It's the rest of his game that I am worried about.

    I'd settle for Dave Ross being Joe Nolan.

  4. #48
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    Re: David Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    I was at the game, and had a totally different feel for it. The Cubs hit a number of hard hit balls right at guys. The Reds struck out a lot, and hit a bunch of pop-ups. 2-3 balls to the warning track- they were not crushed, from my vantage point, never in any danger of going out. Lilly had the Reds off balance the entire evening.

    Dunn hit a laser beam off the wall, that rocketed right back to the RF'er, which is why it was only a single, well, that and his admiring of it as well, as you said.

    I agree that Dave Ross is the best we have. I'd play him again today and see if he can swing his way out of it. He certainly has some pop; he absolutely crushed some balls last year. It's the rest of his game that I am worried about.

    I'd settle for Dave Ross being Joe Nolan.
    I'll concede to your vantage point. Mine was from the warmth of my couch and relied completely on camera angles and the sound of contact. Plus, Thom and Jeff also thought at least the Ross shot and BP's would have been HRs so I was deferring to them.

    Both teams struck out a lot. Definitely not a night for hitters. I play in a wooden-bat league in Michigan and have played some night games with temps in the 30s and 40s. The pain of a foul ball off a 75 MPH fastball must feel as soft as a Holiday Inn Express pillow compared to getting a piece off Bobby Howry. And before hitting reply, I realize that last sentence could benefit from rephrasing, but I'm far too lazy.
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  5. #49
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    Re: David Ross

    the ball Ross hit last night was a smash and the wind held it in the park.. i was at the game and everybody around me was celebrating thinking it was gone and it was like it died at the wall.. so he did swin g good on that last AB.. he screwed up not catching the ball and or picking it up, stepping on home and throwing to 1st.. but 160 more games to go.. it was VERYcold last night and the winds held up 3 flyballs i saw would have been gone in the summer heat.. Ross, Philips and Conine

  6. #50
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: David Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan4445 View Post
    .. but 160 more games to go..
    true.

    It was cold for both teams, of course. I thought the Reds got beat squarely last night.

    It was the coldest I have ever been at a baseball game, I never could warm up- I nearly ran to my car at the end of the 8th inning, and it took me 2 Maker's Marks at home to heat up!

    If I had known Burton was pitching the 9th, I'd have hung around just to see him, even if he did walk three in a row.

  7. #51
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    Re: David Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    I'd play him again today and see if he can swing his way out of it.
    Probably not likely with the righty Marquis starting and the proverbial day-game-after-night-game philosophy of Narron. Pretty safe bet that Javy is in the lineup today.

  8. #52
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    Re: David Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    I agree that Dave Ross is the best we have. I'd play him again today and see if he can swing his way out of it.
    If I were the manager David Ross wouldn't have finished last night's game after that boneheaded play on the bunt pop up with the bases loaded.

    Ross should have been all over the frickin' pop up bunt, like lightning. You shoot out from behind the plate like you stole something in that situation. If the ball manages to fall, you pick it up and you tag the plate to force the lead runner and prevent anyone from scoring. THEN you look for somewhere else on the diamond to make a play. Ross didn't really come out from behind the plate in any hurry at all. When the ball dropped, he picked it up and winged it to 2nd. That was probably the worst play he could make in that situation, forgiving that he didn't hustle after the pop up. The runner going to 2nd hadn't even taken 3-4 step off of first base yet. You have plenty of time to get that runner. Force the guy at home, first. A mistake like that at the major league level tells me that Ross' head was not in the game at that moment. And if his head was not in the game with the bases loaded in a close game, then he doesn't deserve to be out there. Since Ross didn't get taken out of last night game (no excuse), he should NOT be in today's lineup. This is a case where Narron HAS to show that he's not going to put up with this kind of play. This is a perfect situation to enforce that. I will be disappointed if Jerry Narron doesn't take advantage of it.
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  9. #53
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: David Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leader View Post
    If I were the manager David Ross wouldn't have finished last night's game after that boneheaded play on the bunt pop up with the bases loaded.

    Ross should have been all over the frickin' pop up bunt, like lightning. You shoot out from behind the plate like you stole something in that situation. If the ball manages to fall, you pick it up and you tag the plate to force the lead runner and prevent anyone from scoring. THEN you look for somewhere else on the diamond to make a play. Ross didn't really come out from behind the plate in any hurry at all. When the ball dropped, he picked it up and winged it to 2nd. That was probably the worst play he could make in that situation, forgiving that he didn't hustle after the pop up. The runner going to 2nd hadn't even taken 3-4 step off of first base yet. You have plenty of time to get that runner. Force the guy at home, first. A mistake like that at the major league level tells me that Ross' head was not in the game at that moment. And if his head was not in the game with the bases loaded in a close game, then he doesn't deserve to be out there. Since Ross didn't get taken out of last night game (no excuse), he should NOT be in today's lineup. This is a case where Narron HAS to show that he's not going to put up with this kind of play. This is a perfect situation to enforce that. I will be disappointed if Jerry Narron doesn't take advantage of it.
    true; I agree with all you say. Read further in my post, and I said I wasn't worried about Ross's power hitting, but am very worried about the rest of his game. As OesterPoster said, Valentin probably plays today along with the rest of the B squad- it's Narron's usual MO for a 12:30 game.

    LaRue was not my favorite player, but he'd have been all over that one- we saw him do it many times.

    A catcher has to be a leader on the field, he has to take charge. I don't know if Ross has the confidence to do that?
    Last edited by Always Red; 04-05-2007 at 10:53 AM.

  10. #54
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    Re: David Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    true; I agree with all you say. Read further in my post, and I said I wasn't worried about Ross's power hitting, but am very worried about the rest of his game. As OesterPoster said, Valentin probably plays today along with the rest of the B squad- it's Narron's usual MO for a 12:30 game.

    LaRue was not my favorite player, but he'd have been all over that one- we saw him do it many times.

    A catcher has to be a leader on the field, he has to take charge. I don't know if Ross has the confidence to do that?
    Yeah, it's unfortunate that today was probably going to be an off day for Ross anyway. The message might not get sent as clearly because of that...

    LaRue was very good about making plays like that. Say what you will about his footwork, arm, etc, but he was pretty good with knowing what to do with the ball in situations and he was good about getting out from behind the plate.

    I don't think it's a confidence thing with Ross. I'm not 100%, but I don't think that's it. I think he would have confidence after getting AB's last year, having the Reds trade away his competition, and then starting Opening Day. I would think his confidence would be at an all-time high going into game 2 of the season. I just kind of think that Ross lacks smarts behind the plate. I've never heard that from the media or inside sources, but that's what it seems like to me. Maybe that's why he's never been looked at as anything but a backup despite his obviously decent power for a catcher?
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  11. #55
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    Re: David Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Ross is just a sloppy as hell catcher.
    No argument here. Except when it come to throwing the ball. He gets rid of the ball quickly and usually puts it on the mark, and has a strong arm to go with it. It's obvious that he's worked hard on that part of his game, I just don't understand how he doesn't work as hard at blocking balls. I would guess because it sucks a whole lot more to work on "blocking balls" than it does to work on throwing out runners.


    And as for the hitting. He made Ted Lilly's 88 MPH fastball look like 98. I thought he was facing Rich Harden for a while.

  12. #56
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    Re: David Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leader View Post
    If I were the manager David Ross wouldn't have finished last night's game after that boneheaded play on the bunt pop up with the bases loaded.

    Ross should have been all over the frickin' pop up bunt, like lightning. You shoot out from behind the plate like you stole something in that situation. If the ball manages to fall, you pick it up and you tag the plate to force the lead runner and prevent anyone from scoring. THEN you look for somewhere else on the diamond to make a play. Ross didn't really come out from behind the plate in any hurry at all. When the ball dropped, he picked it up and winged it to 2nd. That was probably the worst play he could make in that situation, forgiving that he didn't hustle after the pop up. The runner going to 2nd hadn't even taken 3-4 step off of first base yet. You have plenty of time to get that runner. Force the guy at home, first. A mistake like that at the major league level tells me that Ross' head was not in the game at that moment. And if his head was not in the game with the bases loaded in a close game, then he doesn't deserve to be out there. Since Ross didn't get taken out of last night game (no excuse), he should NOT be in today's lineup. This is a case where Narron HAS to show that he's not going to put up with this kind of play. This is a perfect situation to enforce that. I will be disappointed if Jerry Narron doesn't take advantage of it.
    Wow...

    I fully advocate Narron privately meeting with Ross to "coach him up" and to ensure it doesn't happen again...but to publicly humiliate the man and yank him during the game...

    Any change in the lineup (headed to game thread now) should be related to pitching matchups...Ross has earned the #1 catcher's spot...he played poorly and I'm sure he was spoken to...but ML baseball players are men and I actually think one of the best things Narron does is earn respect in the clubhouse BY treating his players as men...

    Just MHO...


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  13. #57
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    Re: David Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by coachw513 View Post
    Wow...

    I fully advocate Narron privately meeting with Ross to "coach him up" and to ensure it doesn't happen again...but to publicly humiliate the man and yank him during the game...

    Just MHO...

    I understand your position, but Ross HAS to know better if he's your #1 catcher, your leader. Maybe I'm a little old school in my approach, but if a guy I'm expecting to be my leader on the field pulls a play like that and shows me he has his head up his *** in a crucial spot in the game (bases loaded, close score) then I think it not only sends a message to that player that kind of behavior isn't tolerated, it also sends a message to the other players on the team that I'm not going to tolerate not keeping your head in the game and that if they don't keep their head in the game, someone will replace them that will.

    I was a catcher for a lot of years. I caught a lot of blowout wins and a lot of blowout losses. In a bases loaded situation in those games, I knew my head had to be in the game. There is absolutely no excuse at all, at anytime, for a major league catcher not to know what to do with the ball in any bases loaded situation. Throw in the lack of effort of him getting out from behind the plate to catch the pop up and that doesn't deserve a "coach him up" talk. That deserves a clear cut message to be sent: "That's horse**** and I'm not putting up with it."
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  14. #58
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    Re: David Ross

    I don't know Red Leader. It was a horrible play. But yank the guy? I think that would be counter productive.
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  15. #59
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    Re: David Ross

    Who did Marty blame for the botched play? Did he rip Ross for it?

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    Re: David Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leader View Post
    ... Maybe I'm a little old school in my approach ...

    Just keep saying "the capital of Djibouti is Djibouti" and you'll be OK.

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