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Thread: Game 1 Thoughts...

  1. #16
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Harang

    Quote Originally Posted by Col_ IN Reds fan View Post
    Well I Kind of disagree. Harang is the Reds best pitcher. He was sailing along.
    What were to happen if the BP collapsed in the 7th? Would people be saying
    he didn't stay in long enough? Back in the day pitchers were expected to go 9 innings.
    I'm with you. I was at the game today, and am kind of shocked to read criticism of why Harang was left in the game to pitch the 7th.

    Why not? He cruised. It was a no brainer to me. If you can get 7 out of your starter every single time, that's a great thing.

    The strength of this team is Harang, Arroyo and Dunn. Go with your horses. It's not like he threw him for 10 innings or 140 pitches. The man threw 112 effortless pitches on a breezy spring day.

    If Narron had taken Harang out after 6, and the bullpen got lit up, there would have been hell for him to pay here on this site, no question. Methinks this is partially a Narron witchhunt...

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  3. #17
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    Re: Game 1 Thoughts...

    Most expects believe it's not the number of pitches thrown so much as how stressful those pitches are. Harang's pitches in the 6th and 7th innings were extremely stress free. he looked like he was playing catch with Ross, simply throwing the pitch in and daring them to hit it. It was his easiest 2 innings of the night.

    Howw he handled those innings seems to suggest that Narron knew what he was doing. Harang certainly wasn't labouring.

  4. #18
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Harang

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns View Post
    This wasn't a lack of confidence in the bullpen. This was an example of your durable, ace pitcher cruising along. When people were clamouring for him to be removed he was getting outs comfortably. At no point was he laboring.

    You can't be afraid to let a guy like Harang throw some pitches. He's a big guy, he can handle it. I know it's opening day, but Harang threw plenty in spring training and he was throwing the ball well. If Harang was having some trouble you would have seen Narron give him the hook much more quickly.
    I agree completely. The boxscore says it was 112 pitches, that doesn't strike me as an inordinate amount. He seemed to be working pretty free today.

  5. #19
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Game 1 Thoughts...

    Overall the Reds defense was good today. EE made a couple of nice plays at 3B. Freel showed range in CF.
    The Reds pitchers will really benefit from Gonzo & Griffey's move to RF.

    Harang cruised. A lot of the hits the Cubs got were 'cheapies'.

    Hat's weak grounder to 2B made me wish Votto was at 1B and Hat on the bench.

    Murton made a nice play robbing Hamilton of his 1rst hit.

    Griifey went the other way on 2 hits. Very nice to see him not trying to hit everything to RF.

    Saarloos had good movement on his sinker.

    Overall a great day!
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  6. #20
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    Re: Game 1 Thoughts...

    The other point on Harang is that it was probably a bit of extended spring as well. I don't think he pitched much more than 70 in ST which means that it was probably a good chance for him to build up his pitch count in a low pressure situation so that when he has to pitch 113 to get through 5 innings its not going to be as much of a stretch.

  7. #21
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Game 1 Thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    I don't have a problem with Freel's out at 2nd today. You have to make a split second decision, and Freel makes it easily unless the ball bounces off the camera right to Lee.

    If he doesn't try there, you are basically telling him never to go in that situation.
    Exactly, it was a total freak play that the ball didn't bounce out of play, and that it happend to bounce right back into Lee's glove. Otherwise Freel is at 2nd. He did play a ball on a short hop that he might have dove after. We were in right-centerfield and you could see a very small pause in his step right when he was at the dive/don't dive decision making point. It seemed to imply that he was telling himself, "if you dive and miss the runner goes to 3rd". That's a good kind of restraint.

    Dunn looked good today. He appears slimmer and his swing was nice and smooth. None of those big windmill deals where he tries to hit it to Mars. Ross, OTOH. Yeeech.

    Gonzo's play (2nd perhaps) where he went to the right and stopped the ball Philips didn't get was very nice. He didn't get the out, but it kept the ball in the infield and the runner at 2B. Ultimatley it saved a run and kept the inning from getting ugly.

    The reception for Hamilton was very nice. Murton made a great play but I thought it was a good move to give the kid a chance before a big crowd but not in some pressure packed situation.

    Harang was sailing and got out of a jam when needed. Weathers *seemed* more confident (however you measure that from the outfield stands).

    Nice game. Nice way to start the season off. Will be interesting to see if Narron sticks with this line up for more than just this one game.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 04-02-2007 at 08:23 PM.
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    Re: Game 1 Thoughts...

    I watched the game today and remarked to my friend that Harang seemed to get stronger as the game went on. I was more shocked that they wasted Harang's at bat in the 6th than I was they let him go into the 7th.
    "Just shut up and play baseball"...Mike Piazza

  9. #23
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: Game 1 Thoughts...

    Even though Gonzo couldn't record the out when he made the great pick up the middle, he prevented the baserunner from going to 3rd by keeping the ball in the infield.

    The result? 1st and 2nd rather than 1st and 3rd.

    EE looked solid in the field today. I don't think there are more than a half dozen 3rd basemen in the bigs that touch the ball that got by him (scored a hit, btw).
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  10. #24
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    Re: Game 1 Thoughts...

    In hindsight, I have no problem with Harang going 113 pitches today. He's proven over the last 2 seasons that he is fully capable of shouldering the workload -- so why not let him go and do what he does best.

    He labored early, but really settled into a groove near the end of the game. He didn't seem to ever need max velocity, so I doubt he was putting a ton of undue stress on the arm.

    He didn't have his best stuff today, but he still dominated. Score another one for "spring training stats are overrated."
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  11. #25
    Manliness Personified HumnHilghtFreel's Avatar
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    Re: Game 1 Thoughts...

    That standing O for Hamilton was great. I got chills watching him standing there waiting to step into the box just smiling ear to ear.

  12. #26
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    Re: Game 1 Thoughts...

    1. It doesn't matter how Harang pitched in the 7th...it doesn't matter if those pitches were "non-stress"...it simply was a risk we didn't need to take...not only the risk of injury or fatigue, but also it risked Harang not leaving the game on a good note...I personally like Narron and major props to RedFanAlways1966 for his great post on Harang's pitch counts from last year, but it simply is a risk not needed, IMHO...however, this isn't nearly as insane as the Brewers were with Ben Sheets today...may they run him out there for extra innings every time they start him...
    Disagree. It's the one "new school" philosophy I don't buy. I thought pitching 7 full was exactly what Narron should have done this afternoon. I believe that pitch counts are watched a bit too closely thesedays, while mechanics probably aren't watched closely enough.

    Our bullpen is shaky at best, I think Narron should avoid it as often as possible. I don't want him to go nuts-- I would NOT have attempted to let Harang go the distance today, but I like the idea of establishing our "ace" as a 7 inning minimum pitcher.

  13. #27
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    Re: Game 1 Thoughts...

    Great game.

    I like Griffey's patience at the plate -- he showed that last August before he got hurt, and it looks like he's carrying it into this year. Should help him a lot.

    Nice swing from Hamilton against a tough lefthander.

    Dunn -- wow. You can see the adjustment he's made with his hands. No more of that bat drooping over his back shoulder.
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  14. #28
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    Re: Game 1 Thoughts...

    Raisor showed rust and Puffy came across as lazy but as the game went on Puffy seemed to find his stroke again.
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  15. #29
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    Re: Game 1 Thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    Even though Gonzo couldn't record the out when he made the great pick up the middle, he prevented the baserunner from going to 3rd by keeping the ball in the infield.

    The result? 1st and 2nd rather than 1st and 3rd.

    EE looked solid in the field today. I don't think there are more than a half dozen 3rd basemen in the bigs that touch the ball that got by him (scored a hit, btw).

    And, to be clear, Gonzo's play was also one that never shows up in the box score (or zone rating I think). Those hidden outs and hidden bases are a huge difference and I think we are going to be on the plus side of them this year.

  16. #30
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    Re: Game 1 Thoughts...

    1. Nice to have a genuine ace at the top of the rotation. Couldn't help but direct a laugh in the direction of Tom Verducci as the game unfolded. Harang and Arroyo are why the Reds have at least a smidgen of a chance this year.

    2. The last week has done a lot to erase much of my Narron and Krivsky wariness from last year. WK's cutting of Hermensan and going with Burton and Coutlangus on this team, while demoting Milton to 5th starter at best has addressed much of my fears about his being too much a vet deferential GM. Narron's batting Dunn 2nd is brilliant. Easy call for some of us on this board, but Narron, who has to deal with folks close to the club like the Brennemans in his ear every day about batting Alex G second because he can "move runners along", doing the smart thing and keeping Dunn in the 2-spot where he can be devastating is outstanding.

    3. It was indeed a nice change not to have to hold one's breath on every ball hit to CF. I used to have that worry that each ball that involved even moderate movement in CF would result in a Jr. injury. That's less of a concren with Jr. in RF. And, as a bonus, having a CF who can get to a large number of balls in the gaps will make this team 3-5 games better from the outset. Again, props to management for helping this finally come to pass.

    4. I remain thrilled that this team is in the Saarloos business. That 8th inning he turned in was clutch. With only a 5-1 lead, and the Chicago line-up with its most dangerous hitters due up, his getting through that by keeping the ball down and throwing strikes made the 9th inning a foregone conclusion. Too many times in the last half decade 5-1 leads get shaved down to 5-3 or 5-4 making the 9th inning problematic. I still would like to see Saarloos start for this team, but love how Narron deployed him yesterday.

    5. That Hamilton made that kind of contact in that spot is a great sign. Nasty lefty he was up against. Great at-bat. I remain stunned at how valuable he is going to be to this team. The crowd's reaction and ovations for him were the highlight of a day full of highlights.

    Really nice day.


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