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Thread: Reds payroll 20th in MLB

  1. #16
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Reds payroll 20th in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunner44 View Post
    But how do you count minor leaguers into a salary cap in the MLB? Do you only include the 25 man roster or do you include the 40 man into your salary cap? Or is this the whole orginization wide? Interesting question.

    Excellent point. Let's say you have a kid like Homer Bailey who got a generous bonus and is probably making way better money than the average minor leaguer is making. Does his salary count too?

    Take Matusaka's situation too. None of the money that BOS paid the Japanese league to get his rights and sign him was salary. He's making around $10M a year, IIRC. That's expensive but it's only $1M more than what Milton makes. You make a $100M cap, the rich teams are going to be all over this Japanese and Cuban thing. They rake in so much revenue yet only have to spend $100M on salaries. What are they going to do with the rest? If you are in favor of a salary cap, do you like a hard cap where it counts against the cap to re-sign your own free agent like the NFL or a soft cap like the NBA where it doesn't?

    A salary cap isn't going to make players like A-Rod come to Cincinnati or Pittsburgh or KC. If he were a free agent and there was a cap problem, the Yankees could sign him for as much as they could and then they could defer salary or YES could hire him as a mulit-million dollar "consultant." Yankees pay A-Rod $15M and YES pays him $10M.

    Let's say the Reds are at or near the salary cap ceiling but they need another pitcher down the stretch. The guy is going to cost the Reds big bucks but if the Reds trade for him, they are going to be over the cap. You can't blame ownership again for not wanting to bring an expensive player in. The cap is the culprit in this case.
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  3. #17
    Member durl's Avatar
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    Re: Reds payroll 20th in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    I wouldn't put a lot of stock into those figures. There are many, many ways to move money around to make it look like the Yankees are losing money and the other entities are making it. An example would be the Yankees charging YES $10M for TV rights. The TV rights are worth 10 times that but YES gets all the revenue for that. The Braves used to do this all the time with TBS. Marge used to charge the Reds for expenses related to her car businesses. StL would funnel all their parking revenue into the company who owned the parking garage which just so happened to be owned by the brewery.
    Good points. In case anyone is interested, here's where I got the info, ranked by team valuation:

    http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/33/Rank_1.html

    Forbes ranks teams every year so I expect their 2006 results to be available soon.

  4. #18
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds payroll 20th in MLB

    You have to do something about the salaries in baseball. There is a $50 million differenct between the yankees and the red sox. The left side of the yankees infield makes more money that the entire d rays. If baseball doesn't want to do a salary cap they need to do a more expensive luxery tax and revenue sharing. Right now it isn't good for baseball that Gary Mathewes is being paid what he is. The Marquis, Mench, and Lilly's don't deserve to be paid what they are. We have seen what a bad contract (Milton) does to a small market club. I am not exactly sure how you change the current landscape but I know it is not good for baseball when steriod using, average players are getting 5 years $50 million contracts.

  5. #19
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Reds payroll 20th in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by durl View Post
    What's interesting is that in 2005 (I'm waiting to see 2006's data), the Yankees posted the largest LOSS ever for a baseball team. They were $50 million in the hole. It took the YES Network's cash stream to make the organization profitable. So while the organization overall made money, the baseball end is leaking cash.
    Yeah, but they plan for that. What counts is the organization as a whole, not the team. With a cushion like that, you can take a chance on free agent pitcher that other teams don't. Sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't--but it's that cushion that makes the difference.

    I don't buy the whole "It's whether you're smart with your money and not how much you have" argument because it makes an excuse for keeping some teams down. Frankly, all teams should have equal chances to spend money wisely or unwisely. The Reds have so much less margin of error that their bad moves (Milton) haunt them for years while the Yankees (Pavano) just stick them on the DL and move on.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Re: Reds payroll 20th in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by UGADaddy View Post
    Thanks for posting that.

    I hate that MLB can't get a more strict salary cap in place, but I also know that it's not how much you spend, but how you spend it. We're paying too much for Griffey (obviously) and Milton (even more obviously), but other than that, I think we we've been smart lately with our money. I know he's not always populat with everyone on here, but overall, I think WK's done a pretty darn good job in Cincinnati.

    Any other opinions?
    The Griffey signing at the time was a great move. That's the problem with saying "how you spend it". You can't spend it perfectly, and the more money you have, the more mistakes you can make.

  7. #21
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    Re: Reds payroll 20th in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    This clearly illustrates the problem. The Yankees have a YES network to make them money. No way you can have such a network in Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, KC, ...
    why not?
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  8. #22
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Reds payroll 20th in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Excellent point. Let's say you have a kid like Homer Bailey who got a generous bonus and is probably making way better money than the average minor leaguer is making. Does his salary count too?

    Take Matusaka's situation too. None of the money that BOS paid the Japanese league to get his rights and sign him was salary.
    These issues can easily be hammered out. First of all the only players which count against the cap are the top paid 25 major leaguers. Minor leaguers like Homer do not count. Most savy teams will count his bonus as part of his minor league career. In football, only the top 53 paid players count against the cap even though with IR they probably have over 60 players under contract.

    As for the Japanese players, there has to be an international draft. It's nuts that signing players from Japan or Cuba is a free for all.

  9. #23
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds payroll 20th in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    why not?
    I would speculate NY has 10 times the market size in it's surrounding area than Cincy = more and more and more ad revenue from TV.

  10. #24
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Reds payroll 20th in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    why not?

    Simple. There aren't 8 million people in greater Cincinnati to subscribe to such a network.

  11. #25
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds payroll 20th in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    These issues can easily be hammered out. First of all the only players which count against the cap are the top paid 25 major leaguers. Minor leaguers like Homer do not count. Most savy teams will count his bonus as part of his minor league career. In football, only the top 53 paid players count against the cap even though with IR they probably have over 60 players under contract.

    As for the Japanese players, there has to be an international draft. It's nuts that signing players from Japan or Cuba is a free for all.
    I figure in 10 years we will look back and see the free for all that we have today to be one of the craziest things ever allowed in MLB.

  12. #26
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Reds payroll 20th in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I figure in 10 years we will look back and see the free for all that we have today to be one of the craziest things ever allowed in MLB.
    I hope you're right. You have more confidence in the powers that be in MLB than I do.

  13. #27
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds payroll 20th in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I hope you're right. You have more confidence in the powers that be in MLB than I do.
    After I posted I thought...maybe I should have said 25 years. After all, it's probably already coming on 10 years since Ichiro signed.

  14. #28
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Reds payroll 20th in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    As for the Japanese players, there has to be an international draft. It's nuts that signing players from Japan or Cuba is a free for all.

    I agree but no one seems to want that enough to push for it. Besides you need to compensate the teams/league from Japan for signing their players. Now what that price is, is up for debate but they do need to be compensated. Then you have it like the amateur draft where the poorer teams may not be able to afford the best amateur players because they want too much of a bonus.
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  15. #29
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Reds payroll 20th in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    I agree but no one seems to want that enough to push for it. Besides you need to compensate the teams/league from Japan for signing their players. Now what that price is, is up for debate but they do need to be compensated. Then you have it like the amateur draft where the poorer teams may not be able to afford the best amateur players because they want too much of a bonus.
    Why do you have to compensate them? Is Japan a free country? Do they compensate us when they sign our players? When a Japanese player is a free agent he should be free to negotiate with American teams. If he's not the problem lies in Tokyo, not NY. If Japan wants to make it possible for their players to show off their skills in America, they'll come up with a system to let them walk.

    Surely you're not trying to protect a system that pays them $50m for negotiating rights? That's part of the idiocy that needs to be abolished.

  16. #30
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Reds payroll 20th in MLB

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Why do you have to compensate them? Is Japan a free country? Do they compensate us when they sign our players?
    Well, yes, if they're not free agents, Japanese teams do compensate US teams for the rights to players all the time. It's just that there aren't any great US players who'd agree to have their rights sold to a Japanese team, so the big money only goes in one direction.
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