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Thread: The Nationals are really awful

  1. #16
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    Re: The Nationals are really awful

    Are we sure we couldn't talk Bowden into taking Milton and call the whole Majewski-gate a wash?

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  3. #17
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    Re: The Nationals are really awful

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leader View Post
    Obviously, it was brilliant for them not to trade Soriano at the deadline last year.

    That decision alone probably set them back 3-5 years.
    But if they weren't getting offered fair market value how would it have helped them to trade him?

    Don't they now receive a draft pick after the first round for Soriano? And if so, isn't that potentially more valuable than receiving 30 cents on the dollar?

    And for all those Bowden bashers that are sure to come out of the closet and bask in this glory, the nationals payroll is down 41% from last year and is at 37 million. Or almost half of what the Reds payroll is currently (depending on how you count Junior's salary). Not many ways to improve a team when your payroll is cut in half.
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  4. #18
    Smells Like Teen Spirit jmcclain19's Avatar
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    Re: The Nationals are really awful

    Quote Originally Posted by Heath View Post
    Me and You. Didn't you get the memo?
    You might do pretty well. Most MLB hitters haven't seen 60mph heat since little league.

  5. #19
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    Re: The Nationals are really awful

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    But if they weren't getting offered fair market value how would it have helped them to trade him?

    Don't they now receive a draft pick after the first round for Soriano? And if so, isn't that potentially more valuable than receiving 30 cents on the dollar?

    And for all those Bowden bashers that are sure to come out of the closet and bask in this glory, the nationals payroll is down 41% from last year and is at 37 million. Or almost half of what the Reds payroll is currently (depending on how you count Junior's salary). Not many ways to improve a team when your payroll is cut in half.

    I don't know. What are the percentages of a first rd pick making it to the majors? In Jim Bowden's years with the Reds I think he had two (Kearns, Wagner). I wouldn't get excited about a post 1st rd pick from Bowden

  6. #20
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    Re: The Nationals are really awful

    I think Kasten is driving the bus on the "burn it down" plan and that he just didn't replace Bowden b/c he knew they were going to suck and he'd be able to easily replace him at the end of the year (which I believe they will do with an in-house candidate).
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  7. #21
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    Re: The Nationals are really awful

    The Nats have battled back. It's now 6-4 after a Ryan Church three run homer.

  8. #22
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: The Nationals are really awful

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    But if they weren't getting offered fair market value how would it have helped them to trade him?

    Don't they now receive a draft pick after the first round for Soriano? And if so, isn't that potentially more valuable than receiving 30 cents on the dollar?

    And for all those Bowden bashers that are sure to come out of the closet and bask in this glory, the nationals payroll is down 41% from last year and is at 37 million. Or almost half of what the Reds payroll is currently (depending on how you count Junior's salary). Not many ways to improve a team when your payroll is cut in half.

    Yes, you bring up a great point on Soriano.

    Another thing people fail to consider is that Bowden's hard line approach on Soriano might've helped him get more for Vidro and Hernandez (both good trades). Bowden has a reputation of a hard bargainer. In order to keep that reputation, sometimes he has to just "eat" a player and let him walk as a FA.

    Bowden did something similiar in 98 (?). Instead of trading Mercker and Mike Morgan for the best he could get, he just let them walk. Morgan and Mercker were pitchers that had some value on the market, but it makes little sense to just give them away.

    Teams like Pittsburg get the reputation that you can simply wait them out on lowball offers and they will eventually take the best deal on the table.
    Another example is the 2003 firesale.. It was clear the Reds would take cash/lowball offers to dump salary. It hurt us later when trying to deal Sully, etc.

    I will say this again. People can laugh at Washington this year, but if their owner is willing to spend money at an average level when their new park opens, Washington will make the playoffs before Cincy will. They are building the farm the right way, as opposed to the Reds. They are doing what many hoped Wayne would do.. Dump the deadwood vets, identify the keepers, beef up scouting, build a monster farm system. And yes, Bowden doesn't get all the credit if it works.

    Of course, if the owners decide to perpetually keep payroll at 40 million, then Washington is screwed.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  9. #23
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    Re: The Nationals are really awful

    Ryan Wagner has pitched two innings of scoreless relief today.

  10. #24
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    Re: The Nationals are really awful

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I don't know. What are the percentages of a first rd pick making it to the majors? In Jim Bowden's years with the Reds I think he had two (Kearns, Wagner). I wouldn't get excited about a post 1st rd pick from Bowden
    He did well with Zimmerman. I don't recall what his other (if any) 1st round picks with Washington were.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  11. #25
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    Re: The Nationals are really awful

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post

    I will say this again. People can laugh at Washington this year, but if their owner is willing to spend money at an average level when their new park opens, Washington will make the playoffs before Cincy will. They are building the farm the right way, as opposed to the Reds. They are doing what many hoped Wayne would do.. Dump the deadwood vets, identify the keepers, beef up scouting, build a monster farm system. And yes, Bowden doesn't get all the credit if it works.
    I want no part of the Reds doing what the nationals are.

    I doubt they make the payoffs in the next 5 years. The Reds are in way better shaped than the Nationals.
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  12. #26
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    Re: The Nationals are really awful

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I think Kasten is driving the bus on the "burn it down" plan and that he just didn't replace Bowden b/c he knew they were going to suck and he'd be able to easily replace him at the end of the year (which I believe they will do with an in-house candidate).

    Bowden's contract expired at the end of the 2006 season.

    http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/...=.jsp&c_id=was

    If Kasten wasn't happy with him, he wouldn't have brought him back for 2007.

    Of course, Bowden still might get fired at the end of the year, but Kasten liked him enough to bring him back this year. Otherwise Kasten's pick would be in the GM desk right now.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  13. #27
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    Re: The Nationals are really awful

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I want no part of the Reds doing what the nationals are.

    I doubt they make the payoffs in the next 5 years. The Reds are in way better shaped than the Nationals.
    You want no part in paying above average salaries to scouts to attract the best and the brightest?

    You want no part in spending big money in Latin America to sign the best prospects?

    You don't want to dump aging, marginal vets like Hernandez and Vidro (Think Milton and Lohse)?

    You want no part in making a big push to discover late round talent in the draft and pay for it? (Their stated strategy, but we have to wait and see if they put their money where their mouth is).

    Well, then you're rooting for the right team then. Enjoy watching Stanton, Conine, Cormier, and other retread vets try to perpetually crack 500 every year.

    Look beyond your hate of Bowden. Look at what the Nationals are doing. I'm not going to nitpick if it's Bowden, Kasten, Boone or whoever. But the franchise is doing the right thing longterm.

    I acknowledge that it might all be a Lindner-like snow job, but if they are sincere (and they seem to be by signing all these high profile scouts), they will be a force to reckon with.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  14. #28
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: The Nationals are really awful

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Bowden's contract expired at the end of the 2006 season.

    http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/...=.jsp&c_id=was

    If Kasten wasn't happy with him, he wouldn't have brought him back for 2007.

    Of course, Bowden still might get fired at the end of the year, but Kasten liked him enough to bring him back this year. Otherwise Kasten's pick would be in the GM desk right now.
    Not if he was setting up Jim to take the blame in a year that Kasten knew they were taking a pass on.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  15. #29
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: The Nationals are really awful

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    You want no part in paying above average salaries to scouts to attract the best and the brightest?

    You want no part in spending big money in Latin America to sign the best prospects?

    You don't want to dump aging, marginal vets like Hernandez and Vidro (Think Milton and Lohse)?

    You want no part in making a big push to discover late round talent in the draft and pay for it? (Their stated strategy, but we have to wait and see if they put their money where their mouth is).

    Well, then you're rooting for the right team then. Enjoy watching Stanton, Conine, Cormier, and other retread vets try to perpetually crack 500 every year.

    Look beyond your hate of Bowden. Look at what the Nationals are doing. I'm not going to nitpick if it's Bowden, Kasten, Boone or whoever. But the franchise is doing the right thing longterm.

    I acknowledge that it might all be a Lindner-like snow job, but if they are sincere (and they seem to be by signing all these high profile scouts), they will be a force to reckon with.
    I want no part of watching the Reds lose 120 games ever. Sorry. It has nothing to do with Bowden.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  16. #30
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    Re: The Nationals are really awful

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I want no part of watching the Reds lose 120 games ever. Sorry. It has nothing to do with Bowden.
    Yeah, a 120 loss season would be painful to watch.


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