Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: Bronson "Tough Luck" Arroyo

  1. #1
    Member Redlegs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Outer view seats
    Posts
    842

    Bronson "Tough Luck" Arroyo

    Bronson's tossed two good games for the Reds with nothing to show for it thus far. I remember a few years ago when Paul Wilson went through this for half a season. Hopefully the tide will turn soon. Until then, Bronson gets a big ole' "Hang with 'em".

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    1,154

    Re: Bronson "Tough Luck" Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Redlegs View Post
    Bronson's tossed two good games for the Reds with nothing to show for it thus far. I remember a few years ago when Paul Wilson went through this for half a season. Hopefully the tide will turn soon. Until then, Bronson gets a big ole' "Hang with 'em".
    It wasn't just two games this year...Bronson pitched well with little run support last year as well. He and Harang both could have pushed the twenty win mark with a little support. Hopefully things will turn around for him soon.

  4. #3
    Member smith288's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    New Albany, OH
    Posts
    7,251

    Re: Bronson "Tough Luck" Arroyo

    The Reds: "We make your #3 look like Clemens"

  5. #4
    Public Enemy #1 Tom Servo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    7,232

    Re: Bronson "Tough Luck" Arroyo

    Ted Lilly and Doug Davis, both crafty lefthanders, did us in even when Bronson was "on" in his starts. Hopefully is next start isn't against a lefty we can't touch.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  6. #5
    Member Redlegs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Outer view seats
    Posts
    842

    Re: Bronson "Tough Luck" Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Ted Lilly and Doug Davis, both crafty lefthanders, did us in even when Bronson was "on" in his starts. Hopefully is next start isn't against a lefty we can't touch.
    If I'm not mistaken, that would be one Ted Lilly at Wrigley.

  7. #6
    Member Redlegs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Outer view seats
    Posts
    842

    Re: Bronson "Tough Luck" Arroyo

    Another quality start today. More non-support and another loss.

  8. #7
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,632

    Re: Bronson "Tough Luck" Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Redlegs View Post
    Another quality start today. More non-support and another loss.
    why care so much about his record?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  9. #8
    Member Redlegs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Outer view seats
    Posts
    842

    Re: Bronson "Tough Luck" Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    why care so much about his record?
    It's not so much Arroyo's record in particular. I just hate it when a pitcher goes out and gives good effort after good effort with nothing to show for it. He's pitching in some tough luck right now and is tagged with an 0-2 start despite giving quality outings every time. It's frustrating.

  10. #9
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,632

    Re: Bronson "Tough Luck" Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Redlegs View Post
    It's not so much Arroyo's record in particular. I just hate it when a pitcher goes out and gives good effort after good effort with nothing to show for it. He's pitching in some tough luck right now and is tagged with an 0-2 start despite giving quality outings every time. It's frustrating.
    he's done his job....thats alot to show for it.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  11. #10
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Oakwood, OH
    Posts
    11,686

    Re: Bronson "Tough Luck" Arroyo

    Obviously we have talked about the cold weather and the effect on games this season. We hear that it makes it harder for a pitcher to grip the ball. Has this been a problem for Bronson Arroyo? He has been good and deserved better, but he has already walked as many batters (7) in 3 starts as he walked in the entire month of April last season (yes, he had an IBB today, but still). Last year he did not walk a batter until his 3rd start of the season.

    REDS Starters, % of strikes thrown
    (1) Milton, 72.6%
    (2) Belisle, 68.6%
    (3) Lohse, 67.8%
    (4) Harang, 67.2%
    (5) Arroyo, 63.8%

    % of strikes is not a tell-tale sign for success (see Milton). But the number of walks by Arroyo has been high for him thus far.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  12. #11
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    24,891

    Re: Bronson "Tough Luck" Arroyo

    Bronson didn't do himself any favors today. He was okay, but again, if you can't keep this Cubs' outfit in check, maybe the problem lies in the pitching. The Cubs' offense (particularly without Ramirez) is not at all good.

    I've said it once, I'll say it again: wait until this pitching faces a real offense; up to this point, they've only faced the dregs of the NL (Pitt, Chicago, Arizona).
    Last edited by Falls City Beer; 04-14-2007 at 09:45 PM.

  13. #12
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Overlooking GABP
    Posts
    4,448

    Re: Bronson "Tough Luck" Arroyo

    This is why I don't put much stock in won/loss record. It is a team stat, not an individual achievement. Think about it: a few more batters yesterday and Harang would have picked up a win, despite pitching a fairly poor game. Quality starts, WHIP, ERA, etc are much better indicators of pitching prowess.

  14. #13
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,632

    Re: Bronson "Tough Luck" Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Herd Fan View Post
    This is why I don't put much stock in won/loss record. It is a team stat, not an individual achievement. Think about it: a few more batters yesterday and Harang would have picked up a win, despite pitching a fairly poor game. Quality starts, WHIP, ERA, etc are much better indicators of pitching prowess.
    Quality starts, WHIP, and ERA are severely flawed for similar reasons....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #14
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Overlooking GABP
    Posts
    4,448

    Re: Bronson "Tough Luck" Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Quality starts, WHIP, and ERA are severely flawed for similar reasons....
    While I acknowledge they have weaknesses (all stats do), they are in no way reliant on the team's offense. You will never have a pitching stat that 100% eliminates team contribution; even ball-strike ratio depends largely on the catcher's call.

  16. #15
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,632

    Re: Bronson "Tough Luck" Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Herd Fan View Post
    While I acknowledge they have weaknesses (all stats do), they are in no way reliant on the team's offense. You will never have a pitching stat that 100% eliminates team contribution; even ball-strike ratio depends largely on the catcher's call.
    No but they are very reliant on the team's defense and their weaknesses basically render them useless-especailly sine there are much better ways. I'd also suggest that the catcher's call is the least of a pitcher's worries...

    As pointed out here, there are actually very good ways to evaluate pitching that completely ignore run- and hit-based metrics and thus avoid dilution/masking of the pitcher's true contribution.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25