Bullpen - Give Credit or Too Early?

[RedFanAlways1966]

10 games is 1/16 of the season. Long way to go. The REDS bullpen has changed a lot from last year's Opening day crew. Coffey and Weathers remain. Am I missing anyone? Comparing the first 10 games of each season... unreal. Luck? Better schedule? Good managing (oh-oh!)? Good GM'ing (lots of new faces)? The Dick Pole effect?

Lots of ball to be played. But you have to notice the bullpen (and RZ has). They are a big part of the reason for the 6-4 record as this is written. They have taken two losses (both in AZ): (1) Saarloos gives up an 8th inning solo HR to Hudson, (2) Weathers gives a walkoff 2-out double in the 11th. But "not so good" offense didn't put the REDS in a position to win those games. Anyone in MLB have a bullpen with better numbers then we see below? If they do, then their bullpen is amazing.

10 Games - 2006
* 27 IP, 34H, 19ER, 24K, 14BB.
>> 6.33 ERA, 1.78 WHIP.
>> 5 saves, 1 blown save.

10 Games - 2007
* 29 IP, 20H, 5ER, 26K, 9BB.
>> 1.55 ERA, 1.00 WHIP.
>> 4 saves, 0 blown save.

[Falls City Beer]

10 games is 1/16 of the season. Long way to go. The REDS bullpen has changed a lot from last year's Opening day crew. Coffey and Weathers remain. Am I missing anyone? Comparing the first 10 games of each season... unreal. Luck? Better schedule? Good managing (oh-oh!)? Good GM'ing (lots of new faces)? The Dick Pole effect?

Lots of ball to be played. But you have to notice the bullpen (and RZ has). They are a big part of the reason for the 6-4 record as this is written. They have taken two losses (both in AZ): (1) Saarloos gives up an 8th inning solo HR to Hudson, (2) Weathers gives a walkoff 2-out double in the 11th. But "not so good" offense didn't put the REDS in a position to win those games. Anyone in MLB have a bullpen with better numbers then we see below? If they do, then their bullpen is amazing.

10 Games - 2006
* 27 IP, 34H, 19ER, 24K, 14BB.
>> 6.33 ERA, 1.78 WHIP.
>> 5 saves, 1 blown save.

10 Games - 2007
* 29 IP, 20H, 5ER, 26K, 9BB.
>> 1.55 ERA, 1.00 WHIP.
>> 4 saves, 0 blown save.

Cold weather. Weak opponents.

Technically, the only REAL new faces are Saarloos, Coutlangus, and Santos.

It's too early, but these guys truly don't project as a plus bullpen. Bailey might change that equation.

[redsupport]

Santos is the ne plus ultra the sine que non of exemplary bullpen theatrics. He is the rara avis of the flock

[membengal]

FCB, you are consistently grumpy on this point, I will give you that. Stanton is a new face too. And he, along with Cout and Saarloos, have changed the whole complexion of how I feel about the team's ability to get outs late in the game. Add in a real maturation from Coffey, and I think the bullpen is legitimately heads and shoulders above where it was last year. I like that they have enough lefties down there now that Narron is only using Cormier to get one lefty out at a time, so far, for instance.

I think there is a lot more to be excited about in the pen than I could have imagined in the middle of March. But WK happily proved me wrong by cutting loose Hermansen and not wasting innings on him while giving a guy like Cout a shot to do something up with the big club. It's better than it was.

Add in Belisle pitching like he means to do something significant with his career, and the Reds' pitching has a chance to be markedly better than I would have expected...

[coachw513]

10 games is 1/16 of the season. Long way to go. The REDS bullpen has changed a lot from last year's Opening day crew. Coffey and Weathers remain. Am I missing anyone? Comparing the first 10 games of each season... unreal. Luck? Better schedule? Good managing (oh-oh!)? Good GM'ing (lots of new faces)? The Dick Pole effect?

Lots of ball to be played. But you have to notice the bullpen (and RZ has). They are a big part of the reason for the 6-4 record as this is written. They have taken two losses (both in AZ): (1) Saarloos gives up an 8th inning solo HR to Hudson, (2) Weathers gives a walkoff 2-out double in the 11th. But "not so good" offense didn't put the REDS in a position to win those games. Anyone in MLB have a bullpen with better numbers then we see below? If they do, then their bullpen is amazing.

10 Games - 2006
* 27 IP, 34H, 19ER, 24K, 14BB.
>> 6.33 ERA, 1.78 WHIP.
>> 5 saves, 1 blown save.

10 Games - 2007
* 29 IP, 20H, 5ER, 26K, 9BB.
>> 1.55 ERA, 1.00 WHIP.
>> 4 saves, 0 blown save.

Well of course the San Diego bullpen has had that incredible stretch of innings without any runs given up at all...but I agree it's a very positive beginning...

If Lohse/Belisle hold up, the bullpen will be solid...those 2 are the key, for better or for worse...

[Always Red]

Give them credit for what they've done thus far, but it's too early yet to make any proclamations.

So far, so good!

[Falls City Beer]

FCB, you are consistently grumpy on this point, I will give you that. Stanton is a new face too. And he, along with Cout and Saarloos, have changed the whole complexion of how I feel about the team's ability to get outs late in the game. Add in a real maturation from Coffey, and I think the bullpen is legitimately heads and shoulders above where it was last year. I like that they have enough lefties down there now that Narron is only using Cormier to get one lefty out at a time, so far, for instance.

I think there is a lot more to be excited about in the pen than I could have imagined in the middle of March. But WK happily proved me wrong by cutting loose Hermansen and not wasting innings on him while giving a guy like Cout a shot to do something up with the big club. It's better than it was.

Add in Belisle pitching like he means to do something significant with his career, and the Reds' pitching has a chance to be markedly better than I would have expected...

As with a lot of so-so bullpens, the secret is not to overexpose them. And so far, they've not logged an inordinate number of innings. And while I'm delighted that Belisle has really stepped it up in the early going, I'm just not sure I can trust the guy to stay healthy; and he's the linchpin right now--take him out of the equation and you have the unbroken string of Lohse, AAA callup, and Milton. That's a veritable pitching desert; which means that the bullpen will be leaned on with much greater frequency. I just don't see many Scott Sullivans, early-version Danny Graveses, and Scott Williamsons around to truly slam the door.

[jmac]

I just don't see many Scott Sullivans, early-version Danny Graveses, and Scott Williamsons around to truly slam the door.

If you cant have the "Nasty Boys"...that right there would be okay with me.
Course key word was "early-version"
BTW whatever happened to Sully ?
Is he still with royals or retire ?

[WVRedsFan]

Give them credit for what they've done thus far, but it's too early yet to make any proclamations.

So far, so good!

Agreed, but they've been shaky at times. The bullpen seems pretty hittable and once the weather settles down and hitters are in their groove, this could all change. Like AR said, so far, so good.

I'm more worried about our starting pitching. Harang is continuing what he was doing in spring training--giving up lots of hits and runs. Outside of his opening day masterpiece (where Narron pitched him too long) he's had nothing and looked stiff and tentative yesterday. I think he's injured in some way. He sure isn't the Aaron Harang we're used to. Same with Lohse. Something's amiss with him too. I don't like it.

[Razor Shines]

Agreed, but they've been shaky at times. The bullpen seems pretty hittable and once the weather settles down and hitters are in their groove, this could all change. Like AR said, so far, so good.

I'm more worried about our starting pitching. Harang is continuing what he was doing in spring training--giving up lots of hits and runs. Outside of his opening day masterpiece (where Narron pitched him too long) he's had nothing and looked stiff and tentative yesterday. I think he's injured in some way. He sure isn't the Aaron Harang we're used to. Same with Lohse. Something's amiss with him too. I don't like it.

Well Harang said he's been sick and hasn't slept the last couple of days, that could have been why he wasn't as technically sound as he should have been on his breaking balls. But his velocity was there and his fastball seemed to have the same movement, he was just hanging his curve ball. I hope that's all it was.

[redsgabp]

the pen has looked good but i think it will only get better.

*the trade* that nobody will let down
gary majewski and bill bray.

look at bray as another guy like coffey.

[KronoRed]

I don't think we should pay any attention to pitching stats until May

[redsgabp]

I don't think we should pay any attention to pitching stats until May

we have about 1/16 of the season over now.

i think it's early to be talking about anybodys stats.

but with maj and bray back SOON I HOPE, i think we will be ok in the pen.
(the question will be who to send down or let go???)

we will see where the reds are going in a true direction in another 15 games or so as far as the stats go.

[WVRedsFan]

I don't think we should pay any attention to pitching stats until May

Good point and well taken. Pitchers always have an upper hand in April.

[WVRedsFan]

we have about 1/16 of the season over now.

i think it's early to be talking about anybodys stats.

but with maj and bray back SOON I HOPE, i think we will be ok in the pen.
(the question will be who to send down or let go???)

we will see where the reds are going in a true direction in another 15 games or so as far as the stats go.

If Magic and Bray ever contribute much to this team, I'll be surprised. With the performance by some of the guys we have here now and Magic's career stats, how do you subsitute him for a Cont? With Bray being so young and his so-so record last year, who do you let go for him?