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Thread: Kyle Lohse

  1. #46
    Roster glue
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    Re: Kyle Lohse

    Arroyo's price hike, while risky, was good in several respects, but IMO most importantly because the extension showed that if you produce in a Reds uniform, you will be retained. It seems somewhat of a departure from past years.

    I like Lohse more than most here, but cringe at the very real possibility of a similar contract doled out to him if he "puts it all together" and has a career year. That said, there is still plenty of time left in the season, and if Good Lohse shows up often enough to produce a career year, that is nothing but good for the Reds' chances this season...even if we see a few manifestations of Bad Lohse. Both sides of Lohse might even show up in the same start (read: the meatballs to Tracy and Snyder in Arizona in an otherwise decent outing). In the end, he will have to conquer the gruesome line he puts up against lefties, especially as we go into summer at GABP.

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  3. #47
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Lohse

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog View Post
    You're asking for just about everything to go right.

    We could have waited till this off season to resign Arroyo. If he has a great season you're in a bidding war, if not you save a lot of money to spend elsewhere. (shrug)

    Dunn is pretty much in the boat same as Arroyo.

    Consider that Arroyo/Harang suffer an injury or have had a career year in '06. Bailey, Bruce and Votto don't live up to expectations. Dunn walks. Hamilton had the peak of his career in ST of '07. The Reds don't have a major league catcher on the roster. How do ya' like me now say the Reds?

    Do I think the scenario I just posted will happen? No. But it's just about as realistic as the one that was described looking through rose colored glasses. (shrug)

    Rem
    It'd be a shame if Harang reverted to his 3.83 ERA in 2005. And another shame if Arroyo reverted to his 4.03 ERA in 2004. Point is...while it was a career year for both, they are 2 solid pitchers who eat innings. Injury aside, it is hard to find fault for extending those 2 guys now.

  4. #48
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Lohse

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Its as if you are upset with the salary increases....take alook around the majors, that is the structure of multi-year deals....please reconsider your statement. I understand you wish the Reds had money to spend, but you also have to lock up core guys with escalating deals. Every team in the major league deals with that, so your first sentence goes for all mid to small market clubs, not just Cincy as it seems you imply.
    I'm not saying they shouldn't lock up the right players...I'm commenting on how whenever it's time for money to come off the books, it's already spent. So when Milton comes off the books, it's already eaten up by guys who are already here. The team doesn't get better in that case. It stays the same.

    Just a comment...not bashing anyone.

  5. #49
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    Re: Kyle Lohse

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    It'd be a shame if Harang reverted to his 3.83 ERA in 2005. And another shame if Arroyo reverted to his 4.03 ERA in 2004. Point is...while it was a career year for both, they are 2 solid pitchers who eat innings. Injury aside, it is hard to find fault for extending those 2 guys now.
    And I'm not finding fault with those signings. As I said, I don't think the earth will crumble and fall into the sea tomorrow with the people involved. I'm just saying that someone like redsgabp and his 'everything works out perfect' plan is unrealistic. And, personally, redsgabp I don't have a problem with you/someone being optimistic but I think you should also be realistic (if it's possible that the two are compatible )

    Bailey, Votto and Bruce have proven nothing at the ML level and the odds are that only one of the three will become a solid major league player. The odds that one of them will become a 'superstar' are minscule. If you think all three will be 'stars', go to Vegas and bet all of your money on '00', your odds are better there.

    Back in '98 I was touting a football QB that was playing ball in the low minors with the Reds. I had a friend that was a University of Texas alum and I told him, 'this kid is going to be a star'. That kid is in LF for the Reds most days now but he's never lived up to my (and many others) expectations. He's a good/very good (depending on your definition) player but I don't consider him a 'star', plus his numbers are declining. (shrug) I'd be very happy if one of Bailey, Votto or Bruce became a 'star'.

    We all know that injuries are the wild card. Any pitcher is one pitch away from the end of his career. Field players not so much but careers have ended for outstanding players with a bad pitch, a bad slide or meetings with OF walls.

    Basically, as a Reds fan, I'm wishing everything comes true for all the projections for these kids. But I'm also pragmatic enough to know that it won't.

    Rem

  6. #50
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Lohse

    Lohse on his outing against the DBacks:
    "It was just a bad choice," Lohse said. "[It was] 3-2. I didn't care if I walked him. I had a base open, and I tried to throw one up and in and set something up for later at-bats. I end up throwing a strike. It wasn't good execution and a poor choice of pitches. Javy [Valentin] called a couple of other pitches and I shook to get to the one I wanted and just didn't execute it."
    Another article quoted him saying "lesson learned."

    I wonder how much of his game was called from the bench? I wonder if he was under orders not to shake off Ross? The talent is there, but the head has consistently been inconsistent. I think he has a poor baseball IQ.

    But if the Reds have him on a tight leash, as I suspect they have with Belisle, this rotation's top 4 could surprise the hell out of the NL. Harang has go to get back on track though. Milton has just got to go.

    If the reports of Dumatrait's velo are accurate, then the Reds have two choices before going to the Bailey well. I'd prefer they not go to him at all this year if possible. Dumatrait, Livingston and EZ once his shoulder regains strength (I'm thinking it will be June) should be the first to get the call. Leave Saarloos in the pen as the long reliever. It's about roles, and he fits that one well.

    Big outing Tuesday. Tonight (Monday) is a lost cause, but Belisle vs Davis should be a good game.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  7. #51
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    Re: Kyle Lohse

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Tonight (Monday) is a lost cause, but Belisle vs Davis should be a good game.
    Milton going for the Reds and a lefty (Capuano) going for the Brew Crew. Tonight will definitely be a tough one.

  8. #52
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Lohse

    The only saving grace is that the Reds seem to own Capuano.

    Sadly the entire NL owns Milton.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  9. #53
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Lohse

    I saw somebody mention this earlier, but thought it should be restated. Lohse has some really good stuff, he just doesn't always know how to use it. Ross did a very good job of not letting Lohse challenge guys inappropriately. He just kept running that 2 seamer over the low outside corner. When he hung that curve to Soriano to lead off the at bat late in the game, you could see he knew he got away with one.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  10. #54
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Lohse

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I wonder how much of his game was called from the bench? I wonder if he was under orders not to shake off Ross?
    According to published reports, Ross called the game himself. He noticed Lohse had a good backdoor slider during warmups, and started calling for it in the fourth inning. He kept calling it, Lohse kept executing it, and the Cubs could never do anything with it. So, despite going 0-3 with three strikeouts, Ross was reportedly very pleased after the game.
    Makes all the routine posts.

  11. #55
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Lohse

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I'm not saying they shouldn't lock up the right players...I'm commenting on how whenever it's time for money to come off the books, it's already spent. So when Milton comes off the books, it's already eaten up by guys who are already here. The team doesn't get better in that case. It stays the same.

    Just a comment...not bashing anyone.
    Understood completely.

  12. #56
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Lohse

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Sadly the entire NL owns Milton.
    DL him until inter-league.



    (And remind him that the Brewers are really an AL franchise.)
    Makes all the routine posts.

  13. #57
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    Re: Kyle Lohse

    An interesting piece on Kyle Lohse from MLB Trade Rumors.

    2008 MLB Free Agents: Kyle Lohse

    I'm sure we'll revisit this after the season. But on a slow trade rumor day, let's take a closer look at a free agent pitcher who could cash in after this season: Kyle Lohse. It sounds absurd to say that about a guy who posted a 5.83 ERA last year, but Lohse might be primed for a three year, $24MM contract.

    Lohse was never ranked among Baseball America's top 100 prospects. But as a 20 year-old pitching well in High A ball, he was enough to snag the Cubs a closer from the Twins in Rick Aguilera. The need had surfaced for Chicago after Rod Beck came down with bone spurs in his elbow.

    So Lohse became a Twin, and initially struggled to master Double A. It didn't matter, as he was very young for his levels and reached the Majors in '01 as a 22 year-old. He didn't fare well in his 16 starts, though he command wasn't bad.

    Lohse won the Twins' fifth starter job out of camp in '02, beating out Johan Santana among others. He had a fine year, winning 13 games with a 4.23 ERA. Lohse even tossed five scoreless postseason relief innings.

    2003 was more of the same - 33 starts, 14 wins, and a strong 1.27 WHIP. His propensity to allow home runs kept his ERA in the mid 4s, but it was still a good year. A five win season, according to Baseball Prospectus.

    He added a sinker in 2004, but it didn't help his home run rate. That worsened; his strikeout rate continued to drop, his control wasn't great, and he allowed tons of hits. Lohse made 34 starts but posted a 5.34 ERA.

    That winter he reached arbitration for the first time. No agreement could be reached, so a hearing was conducted. Lohse was the winner and snagged $2.4MM despite coming off his worst season.

    His first possible serious injury surfaced in '05, as he felt shoulder stiffness in April. The MRI came up clean and it turned out to be a non-issue. He pitched tolerably in the first half, generating talks of a swap to the Blue Jays for Shea Hillenbrand.

    The trade didn't happen. In September of that year, Lohse badmouthed Ron Gardenhire in the media and also punched several clubhouse doors, injuring his finger temporarily. The two sides made amends, but the finger injury lingered a bit.

    That winter, Lohse again went to arbitration with the Twins and beat them, winning $3.95MM. It wasn't a bad year - a 4.18 ERA in 30 starts.

    In the spring of 2006, Lohse scrapped his curve to go with only his fastball, changeup, and slider. Somehow, he earned a rotation spot over Francisco Liriano out of camp. The new approach didn't work - Lohse was awful in April and earned a trip to Triple A. He was angered by the demotion, but pitched well in four starts. The Mets, Red Sox, and other clubs expressed interest. He returned to the Twins in June and worked as a reliever, posting a 4.44 ERA out of the pen in 26 innings.

    Twin-loving Reds GM Wayne Krivsky traded for Lohse at the deadline, giving up prospect Zach Ward. So far in 14 National League starts, Lohse has found the league very much to his liking. His strikeout rate is way up, and his command looks great. Is it a first-time-around-the-league mirage? We'll need more data to be sure, but many pitchers have rejuvenated their careers in the NL.

    As far as I can tell, Lohse has a decent repertoire. He is said to throw harder than Bronson Arroyo or Aaron Harang, and his manager raves about his changeup. Reds pitching coach Dick Pole loves his stuff. He finally avoided arbitration as a Red, as seems to enjoy it there. Lohse considers the American League "Arena Baseball," so he probably won't be going back.

    Lohse doesn't turn 29 until October, making him one of the younger free agent pitchers out there. He also has a fine health history. Lohse's next contract should fall somewhere between Jason Marquis's 3/21 and Gil Meche's 5/55. It's not inconceivable that Lohse could get $8-10MM annually and three years. Given his age, a team might even have to add a fourth year to win his services.
    LINK

  14. #58
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Lohse

    after tonight -

    IP 28.1
    H 26
    BB/K 3/23
    WHIP 1.02
    batting average against .236
    ERA 1.91

    Great start for 2007.
    .

  15. #59
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Lohse

    Tonight wasn't in cold weather. Good sign.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  16. #60
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Lohse

    After tonight, Lohse has made 15 starts for the Reds since the trade last summer.

    90.1 IP (6.0 IP per start)
    73 K (7.3 K/9IP)
    22 BB
    92 H
    1.26 WHIP
    3.70 ERA

    Pretty damn impressive. I'd say he's a solid #3 in this rotation.

    For now.


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