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Thread: Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

  1. #151
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    I cannot believe what I'm about to say, but I agree with GAC here

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  3. #152
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    I agree. But when a murder and/or shooting is committed are they really properly trained for that? Shouldn't outside law enforcement, who are far better equipped, then be called in?
    Blacksburg isn't much bigger than Bellfontaine. The closest city is Roanoke, nearly an hour drive away through the mountains. How well would your town be able to respond to such a situation?

    I assume the campus police was trained to deal with murder cases. That's what they thought they had on their hands. By the time they knew what was really going on, their remote location probably delayed those specially equipped forces from arriving.
    Last edited by paintmered; 04-18-2007 at 10:10 PM.
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  4. #153
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    Blacksburg isn't much bigger than Bellfontaine. The closest city is Roanoke, nearly an hour drive away through the mountains.

    How well would your town be able to respond to such a situation?
    They probably could not have stopped him. But it serves no purpose for them NOT to be informed.

    When there's a gunman at large, you tell people so they can be alert. That's all there is to it. The Blacksburg police may not be the A-Team, but surely they are trained in the proper procedures of alerting the community to the fact that an armed murderer may be running around. College campuses are not oasises, and again, my understanding is that this particular dorm is on the edge of campus (not that it would make a difference if it weren't).
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  5. #154
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    They probably could not have stopped him. But it serves no purpose for them NOT to be informed.

    When there's a gunman at large, you tell people so they can be alert. That's all there is to it. The Blacksburg police may not be the A-Team, but surely they are trained in the proper procedures of alerting the community to the fact that an armed murderer may be running around.
    But that's the problem. They didn't know the gunman was still on the loose because they pursued a bad tip and apprehended the wrong suspect. In their mind, there was nothing to alert to the surrounding community because the thread was neutralized. Only when the second round of attacks happened did they realize they had the wrong guy.

    It's very easy to view this in hindsight.
    Last edited by paintmered; 04-18-2007 at 10:16 PM.
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  6. #155
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    But that's the problem. They didn't know the gunman was still on the loose because they pursued a bad tip.

    It's very easy to view this in hindsight.
    I agree, and again, in the heat of the moment, they made the decisions that they thought were right, and so in a sense they were the right decisions at the time. I certainly doubt that the VT police had anything but the best intentions in mind.

    I still think that their decisions, in full hindsight, will be made differently in the future, and I certainly think it's the correct decision to notify the local police as soon as a murder occurs (among other things such as making the community more alert). Even if you think you have the situation "under control", even if you think the gunman is in custody or dead. You say that the campus police were probably trained to deal with murders; well, so are the local police, and small town though Blacksburg may be, I'm guessing they also have more experience with it.

    In a true emergency like this, I just believe that alerting as many people as you can even just to the fact that it's going on is crucial. Secrecy in this case didn't seem to serve much purpose.
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  7. #156
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    In a true emergency like this, I just believe that alerting as many people as you can even just to the fact that it's going on is crucial. Secrecy in this case didn't seem to serve much purpose.
    I doubt their motivation was to keep it secret. I just think they didn't see it as a priority at the time to alert the community.

    I would be shocked if Blacksburg police weren't asked to respond. Campus police departments usually work closely with the local police.
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  8. #157
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    They probably could not have stopped him. But it serves no purpose for them NOT to be informed.

    When there's a gunman at large, you tell people so they can be alert. That's all there is to it. The Blacksburg police may not be the A-Team, but surely they are trained in the proper procedures of alerting the community to the fact that an armed murderer may be running around. College campuses are not oasises, and again, my understanding is that this particular dorm is on the edge of campus (not that it would make a difference if it weren't).
    I mentioned this on another thread. What is the difference between a murder on campus and a murder at the Waffle House in Blacksburg? I'm sure people are killed on a regular basis in Blacksburg, like most towns. The campus is not locked down and the students are not notified. The Waffle House is closer to some parts of campus than the dorm room where the first murders occured. A armed murderer is "at large" in both circumstances.

    The campus is so large and is the University is meshed in the middle of Blacksburg, it's just a no win situation. What happened on Monday, does not happen. Someone that commits murder, usually is on the run. They don't wait 2 hours and then go and kill 31 other people. How do you notify 10,000 employees coming to campus and 14,000 off campus students 30 minutes before classes start? No win situation.
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    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    I doubt their motivation was to keep it secret. I just think they didn't see it as a priority at the time to alert the community.

    I would be shocked if Blacksburg police weren't asked to respond immediately. Campus police departments usually work closely with the local police.
    Well, maybe my facts are wrong, because that's one of the points that's been sticking out to me...I thought they didn't call the police until 9:30?
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    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

    Quote Originally Posted by George Foster View Post
    The campus is so large and is the University is meshed in the middle of Blacksburg, it's just a no win situation. What happened on Monday, does not happen. Someone that commits murder, usually is on the run. They don't wait 2 hours and then go and kill 31 other people. How do you notify 10,000 employees coming to campus and 14,000 of campus students 30 minutes before classes start? No win situation.
    Dude, if someone on my campus took the walk of shame at 7 am and was seen by one person, the news was all over campus in five minutes flat. And this was pre-cell phones, blackberries and TVs in every student building.
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    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    Well, maybe my facts are wrong, because that's one of the points that's been sticking out to me...I thought they didn't call the police until 9:30?
    If they didn't call outside agencies until 9:30, they obviously felt there was no longer a threat until the second round of shootings occurred.

    In hindsight, they made tragically wrong assumptions. But it's only because this was such a unique and unparalleled situation that their assumptions were wrong. And it's unfortunate because the local authorities will face plenty of blame (and lawsuits).
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  12. #161
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

    People like to say that gun control won't help but unless you are already a connected criminal, which this kid was not, where are you going to go to get a black market gun? Honestly, I wouldn't have the first clue as to where to obtain black market guns & ammo. I'm sure it isn't hard for people who are already criminals and know other criminals but I just have a hard time believing it's that easy to get a gun if you don't already know someone. It's not like scoring beer in high school where you'd just stand outside the 7-11.
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    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    Dude, if someone on my campus took the walk of shame at 7 am and was seen by one person, the news was all over campus in five minutes flat. And this was pre-cell phones, blackberries and TVs in every student building.
    how big of a school did you go too?
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  14. #163
    1st pick 2022 B.B. draft George Foster's Avatar
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

    Hey, I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but how do you feel about NBC/MSNBC airing the ramblings of a mad man? I thought it was one of the most irresponsible things ever aired on TV.

    There is a reason why you never see someone run out on the playing field of a baseball game or football game. The networks have made a decision not to show them running around because they (the networks) know that is what the idiot wants....to get on TV and they won't give him the satisfaction. This has lead to very few cases of this happening a year.

    What is stoping another mad man from doing the same thing as what happened on Monday at Virgina Tech? He knows now he will get his taped aired on the nightly news, and played on youtube. Irresponsible does not even describe it. Just my opinion.
    Last edited by George Foster; 04-18-2007 at 10:36 PM.
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  15. #164
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    how big of a school did you go too?
    Much smaller than VT. I was really just making a point that of all reasons that they did not let people know in a more timely fashion, the excuse that they couldn't due to communication factors is a flimsy one in this day and age.

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    In hindsight, they made tragically wrong assumptions. But it's only because this was such a unique and unparalleled situation that their assumptions were wrong. And it's unfortunate because the local authorities will face plenty of blame (and lawsuits).
    I agree with everything you say in this paragraph, until you get to the last sentence. I hope that people do not let this possibility get in the way of a fair look at the way they handled things because of the fear of lawsuits. If there were lapses in judgment, it's not unfortunate because they may get blamed or sued, it's unfortunate because people died. And it's important to thoroughly examine the decisions they made, again, not for the purpose of blaming them, but for the purpose of schools making better decisions in the future. Because tragically we all know now that it CAN happen, and could happen again. What they dealt with was unprecedented. Now there's a precedent. We have to use it well.
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  16. #165
    1st pick 2022 B.B. draft George Foster's Avatar
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    Much smaller than VT. I was really just making a point that of all reasons that they did not let people know in a more timely fashion, the excuse that they couldn't due to communication factors is a flimsy one in this day and age.



    I agree with everything you say in this paragraph, until you get to the last sentence. I hope that people do not let this possibility get in the way of a fair look at the way they handled things because of the fear of lawsuits. If there were lapses in judgment, it's not unfortunate because they may get blamed or sued, it's unfortunate because people died. And it's important to thoroughly examine the decisions they made, again, not for the purpose of blaming them, but for the purpose of schools making better decisions in the future. Because tragically we all know now that it CAN happen, and could happen again. What they dealt with was unprecedented. Now there's a precedent. We have to use it well.
    Very good post!
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