Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: Narron lets pitchers hit too often, then pulls them

  1. #1
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    4,716

    Narron lets pitchers hit too often, then pulls them

    Let me preface by saying I like Jerry Narron overall. You are not reading the words of some Narron basher.

    But too often I've noticed he allows the pitcher to bat in let's say the 5th or 6th or 7th inning, and then pulls them as soon as they allow a baserunner the following inning. You have to have some foresight here. If you know your pitcher is already on a short leash, then you have to put in a pinch hitter for them when they come to bat. Narron is trying to have it both ways and it could be costing us runs. And I'm not just talking about the Eric Milton example on 4/16 against the Brewers (Milton hits in the bottom of the 5th, then is lifted after Fielder doubles to lead off the sixth) but that is one very good example. Why let Milton hit there if you know you are going to take him out as soon as he gives up a hit the following inning? I have noticed this quite often with Narron over the last couple years. This is one of the key differences of managing in the NL and AL and Narron is still lacking in this area.

    IMO, if a manager lets the pitcher bat, that means you are confident he will last at least another full inning or two. If you are going to pull him as soon as he gives up a hit or walk, you might as well take him out the previous inning, send up a pinch hitter and hope for some runs.
    Last edited by Blitz Dorsey; 04-16-2007 at 08:48 PM.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Cookeville, Tennessee
    Posts
    337

    Re: Narron lets pitchers hit too often, then pulls them

    Great points. I was thinking the same thing. The reds were down 2-0 and in need of runs badly. I can't believe he let him hit and then pulled him after one batter.

  4. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,198

    Re: Narron lets pitchers hit too often, then pulls them

    What? Narron > god.

  5. #4
    Member jimbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Troy, OH
    Posts
    2,636

    Re: Narron lets pitchers hit too often, then pulls them

    He wanted to bring in Santos, but the lefty Fielder was first up next inning. The bases were empty with 2 outs when Milton's turn came up. Milton was probably done whether Fielder gets on or not. Makes perfect sense to me. He was just playing the percentages.

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Athens, GA baby!
    Posts
    202

    Re: Narron lets pitchers hit too often, then pulls them

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    He wanted to bring in Santos, but the lefty Fielder was first up next inning. The bases were empty with 2 outs when Milton's turn came up. Milton was probably done whether Fielder gets on or not. Makes perfect sense to me. He was just playing the percentages.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by REDblooded View Post
    What? Narron > god.
    What exactly does this mean??
    Here's to another record-breaking season from Adam Dunn ...another 40 homeruns (all coming with nothing on the line) and 200 Ks! We Want King Jay!!

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,198

    Re: Narron lets pitchers hit too often, then pulls them

    Quote Originally Posted by UGADaddy View Post
    Agreed.



    What exactly does this mean??
    It means Narron is greater than God, and I don't care what religion you observe.

  8. #7
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    4,716

    Re: Narron lets pitchers hit too often, then pulls them

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    He wanted to bring in Santos, but the lefty Fielder was first up next inning. The bases were empty with 2 outs when Milton's turn came up. Milton was probably done whether Fielder gets on or not. Makes perfect sense to me. He was just playing the percentages.
    I know it's always a long-shot, but Narron should have been thinking about starting a two-out rally with no one on. Even with two outs and the pitcher coming up, I would rather see a pinch hitter there who could possibly get a hit or HR and all of a sudden it's a 2-1 game. It's a totally different story if you are planning on leaving the pitcher in for a few innings. But to let him bat and then pull him after one batter is absolutely absurd and doesn't play to any percentages. Narron basically gave Capuano and the Brewers a free out in the bottom of the fifth in what was a 2 run game at the time. Very dumb IMO, and overall I like Narron.

  9. #8
    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    in tornado alley
    Posts
    1,758

    Re: Narron lets pitchers hit too often, then pulls them

    Quote Originally Posted by REDblooded View Post
    It means Narron is greater than God, and I don't care what religion you observe.



    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

  10. #9
    Member jimbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Troy, OH
    Posts
    2,636

    Re: Narron lets pitchers hit too often, then pulls them

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    I know it's always a long-shot, but Narron should have been thinking about starting a two-out rally with no one on. Even with two outs and the pitcher coming up, I would rather see a pinch hitter there who could possibly get a hit or HR and all of a sudden it's a 2-1 game. It's a totally different story if you are planning on leaving the pitcher in for a few innings. But to let him bat and then pull him after one batter is absolutely absurd and doesn't play to any percentages. Narron basically gave Capuano and the Brewers a free out in the bottom of the fifth in what was a 2 run game at the time. Very dumb IMO, and overall I like Narron.
    It's a matter of philosophy. To call it a dumb move is just unwarranted because it was a sound managerial decision whether you agree or not. Maybe not every manager would have done the same, but many would have. If it was later in the game or if there were runners on base or if Milton was leading the inning off, it wouldn't have been a sound decision. But given the inning and the situation, it made plenty of sense.

  11. #10
    Can he be stopped?
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Notre Dame
    Posts
    1,231

    Re: Narron lets pitchers hit too often, then pulls them

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    I know it's always a long-shot, but Narron should have been thinking about starting a two-out rally with no one on. Even with two outs and the pitcher coming up, I would rather see a pinch hitter there who could possibly get a hit or HR and all of a sudden it's a 2-1 game. It's a totally different story if you are planning on leaving the pitcher in for a few innings. But to let him bat and then pull him after one batter is absolutely absurd and doesn't play to any percentages. Narron basically gave Capuano and the Brewers a free out in the bottom of the fifth in what was a 2 run game at the time. Very dumb IMO, and overall I like Narron.
    I don't have a huge problem with it. It clears the pitcher's spot so your 1-2-3 lead off the next inning any way. Thats where the offense should be comming from.
    Tom Shearn... who knew?

    Reds reccord when I attend in 2007: 6-1

  12. #11
    Can he be stopped?
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Notre Dame
    Posts
    1,231

    Re: Narron lets pitchers hit too often, then pulls them

    btw... did you have another example from this year? Or another memorable one? I think he does this often as well, but I don't know specifically when he does it.
    Tom Shearn... who knew?

    Reds reccord when I attend in 2007: 6-1

  13. #12
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    4,716

    Re: Narron lets pitchers hit too often, then pulls them

    Not off the top of my head, but it has happened quite often during his tenure. It's definitely my No. 1 complaint about Narron. I think sometimes he feels that he is disrespecting the pitcher by pitch hitting for them, but that's just life in the National League. Narron needs to get over it and if he knows he is about to pull a pitcher anyway, pinch hit for him and try and produce every hit and run possible. You never give up on an inning just because you have two outs and none on. Like I said, it's a completely different story if you think your pitcher can give you another full inning or two. But if you think he's only good for one or two more batters at best, my all means send a pinch hitter up there and try and get something going. Narron sometimes manages like runs are going to magically appear. Especially when you are losing, you better be aggressive and go after some runs. I don't have as big of a problem with it when we're winning say 2-0. But down 2-0 like last night, he should have pinch hit. And you know the Brewers were loving that move. Just another free out in what was at that time a close ballgame. Well, Milty is a decent hitter for a pitcher and "if you swing the bat you're dangerous" I've been told, but I would have much rather seen a real hitter up there.

  14. #13
    Reds 5:11 coachw513's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    642

    Re: Narron lets pitchers hit too often, then pulls them

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    He wanted to bring in Santos, but the lefty Fielder was first up next inning. The bases were empty with 2 outs when Milton's turn came up. Milton was probably done whether Fielder gets on or not. Makes perfect sense to me. He was just playing the percentages.
    Excellent analysis and dead-on

    Didn't work the best, but the reasoning was sound...

    Otherwise you waste a PH, waste one of your LH bullpeners pitching to Fielder, both shortening your already short bench and overworking your bullpen too much for an early season game IMHO...


    You cannot defeat an ignorant man in an argument!
    -William Gibbs McAdoo

    Though many of us here are sure trying

  15. #14
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    10,182

    Re: Narron lets pitchers hit too often, then pulls them

    This is one of Narron's flaws and I agree that he doesn't have the "feel" when handling pitchers. Let me ask you about last nights game. There is a lefty on the mound so your ph options are Valentine, Moeller, and Cruz. Is there really an advantage with those 3 over Milton?

  16. #15
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Olathe, KS
    Posts
    13,793

    Re: Narron lets pitchers hit too often, then pulls them

    Who would have been the PH? Moeller?

    As thin as Narron and Krivsky have left the bench, the Reds can't afford to use a PH in marginal situations.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25