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Thread: Narron's double standard

  1. #61
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Narron's double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    That's my take on it, too, BRM.



    I was more put out with his "no look, behind the back, pitch-flip" on a possible DP ball last night, earlier in the game- what kind of crap was that?? I hope now that Brandon is feeling more comfortable here in Cincinnati, that he doesn't revert back to the "bad-boy Brandon" of Cleveland infamy. He said and did all of the right things last year, and made many fans for himself in the process.
    To be fair to Phillips I think that's the only way that play gets made. It just didn't work.
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  3. #62
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    Re: Narron's double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I just think a lot of folks here hate Narron and Krivsky so much that they parse and dissect every word Narron and Krivsky say to the point that there is no way they can open their mouths w/out someone questioning them. And then when they don't talk, they're accused of not being forthcoming. RZ is sure a tough crowd to please.
    I don't hate anyone, but I don't like Narron because of stuff like this. Benching EdE for not hustling and then looking the other way on Griffey and Phillips is hypocritical. I don't think any of them should have been benched, but if he's going to bench one then he should bench them all. BTW, I like Krivsky. I'm not one of those people you are referring to.

  4. #63
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    Re: Narron's double standard

    I thought it was the only chance they had to turn that DP, to try and get it done quick enough. I thought it was done out of necessity...

  5. #64
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    Re: Narron's double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    I thought it was the only chance they had to turn that DP, to try and get it done quick enough. I thought it was done out of necessity...
    Yea, that very well could be. It really wasn't the end of the world.
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  6. #65
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Narron's double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I don't hate anyone, but I don't like Narron because of stuff like this. Benching EdE for not hustling and then looking the other way on Griffey and Phillips is hypocritical. I don't think any of them should have been benched, but if he's going to bench one then he should bench them all. BTW, I like Krivsky. I'm not one of those people you are referring to.
    Yeah, Phillips showboated out of the box but he also GOT A TRIPLE.

    EE just stood there, even after he knew it was a fair ball.

    But really it's not just about those two plays, it's about a pattern of behavior and from where I sit EE been a little "sleepy" so far this year in way that is very reminiscent of D'Angelo Jimenez. Look at that AB where he was asked to bunt the night before.

    Now do I agree with pulling EE from the game or publicly reprimanding EE? Not really. But OTOH, I'm not cool with players acting like they don't give a crap out there either.

    I really like EE and I think he's got a good future, hopefully for the Reds, but I just don't agree that Narron is ruining him as some others feel. If EE, or any other player for that matter, can't take some criticism and adversity then they're not going to be able to survive in the majors anyway.
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  7. #66
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Narron's double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    To be fair to Phillips I think that's the only way that play gets made. It just didn't work.
    You're right, it would have been a very difficult play, and he certainly would not have had time to field, pivot and then throw. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. One of the only bad things about being physically at the game is that you only see things once. They are notoriously bad at showing any replays at the ballpark.

    I was sitting in 526 last night, and I had to wait to get home to confirm, here at Redszone, that someone actually reached over the fence and caught Griffey's shot off the wall in the first inning, for a ground rule double. No announcement, no replay, no nothing. Looked like a HR from 600 feet away!

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    Re: Narron's double standard

    Not that Griffey has hit any homers this year anyway but he needs to lead by example as a veteran player and a future hall of famer. Narron shouldn't have to say anything to Griffey or Dunn or any other veterans and they should enforce to the younger players.

  9. #68
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    Re: Narron's double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I just think a lot of folks here hate Narron and Krivsky so much that they parse and dissect every word Narron and Krivsky say to the point that there is no way they can open their mouths w/out someone questioning them. And then when they don't talk, they're accused of not being forthcoming. RZ is sure a tough crowd to please.


    I couldn't possibly agree more.

    What if Sweet Lou was the manager of the Reds and had dispensed the tough love?

    I'd bet there would be a line of posters praising him.
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  10. #69
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    Re: Narron's double standard

    "I told him I was thankful he made it to third base, because I would have hated for him to not been in there in the ninth inning," Narron said. "I thought it was out. The only thing I can tell you is, as long as guys get the bases they're supposed to get, that's all I ask for."
    So was Edwin supposed to somehow get on base on the pop out to 2nd base?

    Oh well, maybe we'll see more of Freel, and his 2 errors in 2 nights, at 3rd tomorrow.
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  11. #70
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    Re: Narron's double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    So was Edwin supposed to somehow get on base on the pop out to 2nd base?

    Oh well, maybe we'll see more of Freel, and his 2 errors in 2 nights, at 3rd tomorrow.

    No, but it would have been nice of seeing the effort of running to 1st in the even the ball was dropped or something to that effect. I know, I know...it's a lot to ask...

    Say what you want about Freel. In no situation is a error good, but as a fan they are easier to digest if the player making them is giving full effort on both sides of the ball.
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  12. #71
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Narron's double standard

    http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs....704190333/1035

    Narron drawing a perilous line

    Column by The Post's Lonnie Wheeler

    On the potentially touchy subject of hustling and double standards and all that, the rest of us had already warmed up Jerry Narron. We asked him about Brandon Phillips standing and watching the home run that fell a base short, and how, in Narron's managerial estimation, that compared to what Edwin Encarnacion was yanked out of the game for. And yes, we asked him about Ken Griffey Jr.'s notorious tendency to trot out ground balls, and where that fits in with this business of "playing the game the right way," as the skipper insists upon.

    But leave it to Marty Brennaman to dispense with the dancing-around and get down and dirty and right to the real question, the hyper-sensitive scenario that we all suspect is coming.

    "What happens," posed the voice of the Reds, with his tape recorder running for Wednesday's pregame show, "if Ken Griffey Jr. hits a ground ball on the infield and he jogs to first base, which he does most of the time, and the shortstop errors the ball but has time to throw him out because he wasn't running hard?"

    And what Narron said was this:

    "We'll definitely talk about it, and he probably won't be out there for a little bit. So we'll see. I just hope it doesn't happen."

    Does he ever.

    Out of principle and best intentions, the Reds' manager has made his own bed of haircloth. Because discipline is often best expressed as an art form, he didn't do it, necessarily, when he punished Encarnacion for standing at home plate on a pop fly. There remained an opening for Narron to patiently explain that no two of his 25 guys are quite alike in their precedents and proclivities.

    Wednesday, however - even before he set down the prickly example of Griffey - he expressly declined that option.


    "I think everybody should have the same standard," he stated instead. "I respect what everybody's ever done in the past in this game; I respect what the younger guys might do in the future; but it's all about right now, playing the game the right way each game. That's all you can go by."

    My personal disagreement on that score doesn't matter a whit. Having coached kids - who aren't as different from Narron's men as you might think - I've found that each one fosters in the authority figure a separate threshold of tolerance; that a season brings with it a different running dialogue with every player; that, at some point, Jim Bob might cross a line that hasn't even been drawn for Joe Bob. The case could be made that, on a big-league ballclub, a double standard is not enough; that for a 25-man roster there ought to be 25 standards.

    But Narron, as of Wednesday, has sent the philosophical arguments to the bench like a young third baseman who neglects to leave the batter's box. He has taken the slack right out of the rope.

    "People in Cincinnati saw Pete Rose for 100 years," he said. "That's the way the game should be played. This was always the organization of Charlie Hustle, and that's what I want it to get back to being.

    "The biggest reason to play the game the right way is it's going to be a close division, right down to the wire. Every play's going to mean something. We've got to get every base we can possibly get, every base that the other team gives us. We just cannot dog any plays."

    And yet, there's Griffey and the ground balls and the single he slugged off the wall on the last homestand, before the Encarnacion episode. There was Phillips and the delayed triple. After the latter, Narron stepped out of the dugout to have some words with his young second baseman; but there was no benching.

    "My big thing," he submitted, "is to get the base you're supposed to get."

    Fortunately for Phillips, he managed to do that Tuesday night, even after loping along until his long fly smacked off the upper face of the wall. Also fortunately for Phillips, he realized how close he had come to a punishable offense. Wednesday night, as a similar drive bounced off the top of the same fence for a home run, the lively infielder was going full-bore around the bases.

    It bears noting, as well, that Griffey - whose effort in the outfield has never been impugned - leaped to catch a ball over the wall Wednesday night. He also raced to his left to snag another on the run.

    But for him, of course, that's not the issue.

    For him, in fact, there might not be an issue, were it not for the policy paper that Narron authored Wednesday evening in the Cincinnati dugout.

    It was bold of the Reds' manager, and commendably uncompromising.

    And as perilous as his right fielder is proud.
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  13. #72
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    Re: Narron's double standard

    "I think everybody should have the same standard," he stated instead.
    Well, we already know he doesn't practice what he preaches here.

    "My big thing," he submitted, "is to get the base you're supposed to get."
    Like I said, EE should have sprinted to the dugout. That's the only base he was going to get on his popup.

  14. #73
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    Re: Narron's double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post


    Like I said, EE should have sprinted to the dugout. That's the only base he was going to get on his popup.
    I'm not understanding your stance on this. It was a pop up in FAIR territory! There are a whole plethora of variables that could have led to him being safe; even on a pop up.

    So anytime a player hits a weak pop up they should just assume it's an out and trot right on back to the dug out?
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  15. #74
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    Re: Narron's double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckU View Post
    I'm not understanding your stance on this. It was a pop up in FAIR territory! There are a whole plethora of variables that could have led to him being safe; even on a pop up.

    So anytime a player hits a weak pop up they should just assume it's an out and trot right on back to the dug out?
    He thought it was a foul ball but that's not the point. Narron says a lack of hustle is okay as long as you end up acquiring the bases you were supposed to. That's the quote I was "picking on". The only thing EE was going to acquire was a seat on the bench because his popup was caught.

  16. #75
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Narron's double standard

    It would be a wonderful world if everyone did what they're supposed to do...... if all Narron had to do was voice his displeasure once, and everyone would fall right into line.

    How nice if all these high-paid studs living out our dreams had the same baseball instincts as Pete Rose.

    They don't. They never will. They all grew up with a sense of entitlement that ballplayers of years gone by seldom had.

    Things are different, although this problem is as old as baseball itself.

    None of this excuses not hustling.

    So now, Narron is subjected to the cross-examination and scrutiny of the public and press, all looking for a contradiction or a chance to catch him in a mistake or poorly worded explanation.

    If I were Narron, I'd tell the press to shut the hell up. I'm running this team, and its performance is my responsibility, as well as my ticket out of here if they don't perform to maximum ability. How he achieves that will ultimately determine his fate.

    I don't think he owes us an explanation, much less being subjected to a cross-examination by Marty or anyone else in the press.

    How would Marty like it if we deposed him on the personnel changes in the radio and TV booth, after the numerous duplicitious remarks which made the press during that process?
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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