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Thread: Jackie's Heirs Haven't Learned

  1. #16
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Jackie's Heirs Haven't Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord View Post
    excepting the Yankees and Red Sox...even my mother who hasn't followed since the 70s can name most of the Yankees and Sox starters.
    Thank you ESPN
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

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  3. #17
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Jackie's Heirs Haven't Learned

    I think we're missing the big picture here.

    In my mind, Jackie Robinson's greatest accomplishment wasn't that he integrated baseball. It was that he integrated professional sports as a whole.

    Had he not played baseball, Michael Jordon wouldn't have had his opportunity to play basketball.

    The sport doesn't matter. It's the fact that he broke the color barrier in ALL sports that is significant.

    African American athletes in ALL sports owe Robinson, and Branch Rickey, a debt of gratitude for their courage.

    The fact that more black kids are drawn to other sports is irrelevent to me. In fact, it's all the more tribute to Robinson's legacy that they can chose the sport they like.

    This isn't a baseball thing, although MLB would love to have us focus only on them.

    It's about our society at large.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  4. #18
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    Re: Jackie's Heirs Haven't Learned

    I think rfs62 makes a good point. In the early 50's and 60's Blacks in general did not have as many choices. Robinson was a marker for the society as a whole, but if Robinson does not become a Dodger it doesn't mean that it would not have happened shortly with some other player leading the way. Integration was/is a problem within all of society -and it was those changes (service by blacks in the war, society as a whole starting to recognize the injustice of seperate but equal, etc....). I would venture to say baseball has never led the way in solving any of societies ills. They jump on the wagon long after it is safe to. There would have been another Jack Robinson shortly after --society was ready for it. We, as a nation, finally figured out how silly the whole thing was.

    Btw, i was thinking of a story the other day --it's about a 2 Reds players who were at spring training. One black, one white--but they had to sit with a rope in between them. They got to talking and realized how silly that rope was and just took it down. I want to say one of the players was Brooks Lawrence...anybody remember this story?

  5. #19
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    Re: Jackie's Heirs Haven't Learned

    In my mind, Jackie Robinson's greatest accomplishment wasn't that he integrated baseball. It was that he integrated professional sports as a whole.
    IIRC Marion Motely played for the Browns in 1946.

  6. #20
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Jackie's Heirs Haven't Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    I think rfs62 makes a good point. In the early 50's and 60's Blacks in general did not have as many choices. Robinson was a marker for the society as a whole, but if Robinson does not become a Dodger it doesn't mean that it would not have happened shortly with some other player leading the way. Integration was/is a problem within all of society -and it was those changes (service by blacks in the war, society as a whole starting to recognize the injustice of seperate but equal, etc....). I would venture to say baseball has never led the way in solving any of societies ills. They jump on the wagon long after it is safe to. There would have been another Jack Robinson shortly after --society was ready for it. We, as a nation, finally figured out how silly the whole thing was.

    Btw, i was thinking of a story the other day --it's about a 2 Reds players who were at spring training. One black, one white--but they had to sit with a rope in between them. They got to talking and realized how silly that rope was and just took it down. I want to say one of the players was Brooks Lawrence...anybody remember this story?
    Brooks Lawrence was done pitching in Fla. one day, when done reds players had to shower and dress and sit in the stands. Also done that day was catcher Ed Bailey. When Bailey went to the stands to sit he saw Lawrence and went over to sit with him. It was then he saw the rope that separated the white crowd from the black. He took it down and noted the stupidity of it (even though it was the law, a dumb one at that) and they never put it back up.

  7. #21
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Jackie's Heirs Haven't Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord View Post
    excepting the Yankees and Red Sox...even my mother who hasn't followed since the 70s can name most of the Yankees and Sox starters.

    I've had this discussion with people before, and believe it's the inevitable result of expansion.

    When there were 8 teams in the national leage, a CASUAL baseeball fan living in a national league city (e.g. Cincinnati) might know all of the hitters on all of the teams. (8 defensive positions x 8 hitters = 64 players).

    With expansion and interleague play, this is not feasible. Even the hardcore fans, have trouble remembering what team Jose Cruz and Reggie Sanders is playing for these days. (It's not free agency, as studies have shown there was just about the same amount of player movement before free agency. It's a matter of volume).

    Let's also not forget that baseball has more fans today than ever before, it just has fewer fans relative to the percentage of the total population. This is the inevitable result of available substitutes - the internet, video games, rock climbing, escort services, you name it.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  8. #22
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Jackie's Heirs Haven't Learned

    Even the hardcore fans, have trouble remembering what team Jose Cruz and Reggie Sanders is playing for these days.
    San Diego and KC?

  9. #23
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Jackie's Heirs Haven't Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    IIRC Marion Motely played for the Browns in 1946.


    Yeah, but if it had any of the significance and impact on society as a whole, we'd be celebrating that instead of Jackie.

    Baseball was America's touchstone back then. I believe that Robinson's story helped set the tone for a social revolution far beyond sports.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  10. #24
    Member SandyD's Avatar
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    Re: Jackie's Heirs Haven't Learned

    Last weekend Alfred and I talked a bit about this. The integration of baseball was big among African American families of our generation and before.

    There is a snapshot of Jackie Robinson sitting in a dugout in Alfred's family album.

    I agree that Jackie Robinson's contribution was bigger than baseball.

  11. #25
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Jackie's Heirs Haven't Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by SandyD View Post
    Last weekend Alfred and I talked a bit about this. The integration of baseball was big among African American families of our generation and before.

    There is a snapshot of Jackie Robinson sitting in a dugout in Alfred's family album.

    I agree that Jackie Robinson's contribution was bigger than baseball.
    I had a professor who believed that Jackie Robinson was the public face of integration in that era because of baseball's stature in American society, but the really big step toward integrating society was integrating military units in the Army.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  12. #26
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: Jackie's Heirs Haven't Learned

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    Thank you ESPN
    yeah...she knows who Melky Cabrera is, but no idea who Jason Bay or Richie Sexson are.
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