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Thread: Guys who need to be pushed

  1. #16
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Guys who need to be pushed

    Josh Hamilton is the exception to all kinds of rules. Using him as a guideline for what other players should be expected to do strikes me as a losing bet.
    For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible

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  3. #17
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Guys who need to be pushed

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    Josh Hamilton is the exception to all kinds of rules. Using him as a guideline for what other players should be expected to do strikes me as a losing bet.
    He's also a month away from turning 26. While he's short on experience, he's got a man's body.

    I'm with you. Expecting the same of Jay Bruce at age 20 or Joey Votto, who's got all he can handle in AAA, is an exercise in futility.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  4. #18
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    Re: Guys who need to be pushed

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfan View Post
    I salivate over a future line-up of 1. Stubbs 2. Hamilton 3. Bruce 4. Encarnacion 5. Votto 6. Phillips 7. Valaika 8. Catcher? That isnt even including any free-agent pick-ups due to Griffey/Dunn/Miltons 30+ millions going off the books which can be spent to lock up our young talent and pick up a few bullpen guys and maybe a very good catcher...
    I agree. In fact I posted a thread on why the future looks good on Reds Live which includes the two points you've made plus the Reds do have a core of good young players on the team now to go with the great depth and talent in the minors.

    On the larger point of pushing our young guys up I think there is more danger in pushing too fast than there is in not pushing fast enough. And, like it or not, the arbitration clock is very important. You'd like your guys to be preforming well while they're still cheap enough that a "small market team" can afford them rather to be learning on the job while they burn their low cost years. I think the way the Reds are treating Homer Joey & Jay it's reasonable to expect they'll be very good early.

  5. #19
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Guys who need to be pushed

    I'll go back to a point I made in 2000, the future always looks good until it doesn't work out the way you drew it up on the blackboard. I lost count of the number posts back in the day about how good the Reds were going to look in 2003, particularly the young pitching staff.

    The Reds are starting, emphasis on that word, to build the kind of depth they'll need to field a mostly homegrown winner. While it's nice to think about the the team jesusfan listed, we should remember that most of the guys on that list lack a backup plan in the system. The Reds are basically looking to draw five cards to a straight with that plan.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  6. #20
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    Re: Guys who need to be pushed

    Just think if the Brewers had drafted Bailey over Rogers like they were supposed to in 2004? We would be talking about a future dynasty..............starting this year. Now they look just "good" with Gallardo and Braun about ready for the show, Bailey would have given them the knockout blow.

    The draft is a crapshoot. Making silly picks like Sowers in 2001 to punt it because of the recession, then picking the wrong pitcher among many good prospects in 2002 and then desperately taking a suspect reliever in 2003. Then consider the rest of the drafts were pretty much crap outside of Votto, you have problems mount. The 99-00 drafts had problems with this as well.

    Yeah, the killer B's are looking good, but you aren't going to hit on first rounders every year. If Stubbs doesn't make it, then Watson/Val/Jordon Smith ete ete need to. That builds up the depth.

  7. #21
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    Re: Guys who need to be pushed

    What was suspect about Wagner? He had two plus-plus pitches, the most ferocious stuff in the 2003 draft. I can see the argument against his delivery, but there's been plenty of guys with bad deliveries who've enjoyed success. Kevin Appier supposedly was going to blow his arm on every next pitch he threw.

    In hindsight, sure, I'd have taken Jon Papelbon (who went in round four of that draft), but in 2003 everybody and their dog would have insisted Wagner profiled as the more lights out guy.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.


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