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Thread: Jose Reyes

  1. #16
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Jose Reyes

    Dude - this thread is about Reyes.

    People gave up on Reyes at 20 years of age for a variety of reasons, said he wasn't going to be worth squat as a major leaguer. Those people were on this board. There were threads about Reyes and how he was a product of the New York hype machine.

    My point was/is even if Hamilton struggles all year against lefties, or if he starts to hit them but then begins to struggle against the high fastball, or the long season, whatever - chances are he is going to struggle at points this year. Right now those struggles happen to be against lefties. The point is how long before Redszone eats him up.

    That was my point - I am not trying to get into a debate here about Hamilton vs. lefties, sample size, etc.

    Only to say that Redszone is schtizo. Thats all.
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  3. #17
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    Re: Jose Reyes

    Sorry. And sorry to prove your point.

    I agree with you, btw, about the eat-their-own bent to this board.

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    Re: Jose Reyes

    In the eyes of Baseball America, Reyes was always a hot prospect, one of the best in baseball. Brandon Phillips rose to that status briefly, but then got rushed by the Indians. Point being, most of these guys at the top of prospect lists based on scout's judgments -- by the time they're playing in the minors, for sure -- have unmistakable talent. They stand out. Organizations risk being embarrassed if they give up on them, while message board amateurs who are proven wrong just move on to other targets, rarely acknowledging they know less than they thought.
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  5. #19
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    Re: Jose Reyes

    Just for disclosure's sake, back when I was plugging for the Reds to snag Reyes I wasn't thinking Reyes would develop into what he is at the moment. Honestly, no one could have seen that coming. This guy could scrub Owen Wilson from the record books. He could single-handedly reignite the running game across the league. He's like Tim Raines with more power and elite SS defense. He's superhuman. Ought to wear a cape on the field.

    I thought Reyes could be at least a Rafael Furcal type of player, possibly a bit better. Furcal's got plenty of game. Now Reyes is Scourge of the Western World.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  6. #20
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    Re: Jose Reyes

    This guy could scrub Owen Wilson from the record books.
    Now THAT would be something.

  7. #21
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    Re: Jose Reyes

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    In the eyes of Baseball America, Reyes was always a hot prospect, one of the best in baseball. Brandon Phillips rose to that status briefly, but then got rushed by the Indians. Point being, most of these guys at the top of prospect lists based on scout's judgments -- by the time they're playing in the minors, for sure -- have unmistakable talent. They stand out. Organizations risk being embarrassed if they give up on them, while message board amateurs who are proven wrong just move on to other targets, rarely acknowledging they know less than they thought.
    Amnesia works both ways. Most prospects fall well short of expectations. What happened to Sean Burroughs, Drew Henson, Wilson Betemit, Ryan Anderson, Ruben Mateo? Those guys were supposed to be superstars, not just good. The scouts rarely acknowledge they know less than they thought, they just glom onto the next new face.

    What fascinates me about Reyes is he's not only made it, but he's seemingly going reach his formidably high ceiling. Heck, he's raised his ceiling to almost preposterous heights.

    What causes a guy like Reyes to make it when a guy like Chris Nelson -- who had all the tools, a great attitude and a head for the game -- hits a wall in A ball? No amnesia here. I suspect if you could determine the answer to that, many of the vagaries of scouting would become clearer.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  8. #22
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Jose Reyes

    Back to the Jose Reyes talk.....

    If not for Carl Lindner stepping in and paying Larkin that three year deal, would he [Reyes] no be a Red right now? Wasn't he one of the players we were getting from the Mets for Larkin in other words?

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  9. #23
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    Re: Jose Reyes

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Back to the Jose Reyes talk.....

    If not for Carl Lindner stepping in and paying Larkin that three year deal, would he [Reyes] no be a Red right now? Wasn't he one of the players we were getting from the Mets for Larkin in other words?
    No, he wasn't one of the players. The big package in that deal was Escobar.
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  10. #24
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    Re: Jose Reyes

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Back to the Jose Reyes talk.....

    If not for Carl Lindner stepping in and paying Larkin that three year deal, would he [Reyes] no be a Red right now? Wasn't he one of the players we were getting from the Mets for Larkin in other words?
    No, that was Alex Escobar. Heads up, IIRC. Reyes had only just signed out of the Dominican in August, 1999. He'd barely started playing rookie ball at the time of that deal.

    I don't think Reyes was ever put into a near deal. Though there was a window when Jim Duquette was making the calls for the Mets and Reyes was struggling that a team might have been able to pry him loose.
    Last edited by M2; 04-23-2007 at 12:52 PM.
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  11. #25
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Jose Reyes

    My mistake, it has been a day or two since that happened, in my defense.

    Championships for MY teams in my lifetime:
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  12. #26
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    Re: Jose Reyes

    Amnesia works both ways. Most prospects fall well short of expectations. What happened to Sean Burroughs, Drew Henson, Wilson Betemit, Ryan Anderson, Ruben Mateo? Those guys were supposed to be superstars, not just good. The scouts rarely acknowledge they know less than they thought, they just glom onto the next new face.

    What fascinates me about Reyes is he's not only made it, but he's seemingly going reach his formidably high ceiling. Heck, he's raised his ceiling to almost preposterous heights.

    What causes a guy like Reyes to make it when a guy like Chris Nelson -- who had all the tools, a great attitude and a head for the game -- hits a wall in A ball? No amnesia here. I suspect if you could determine the answer to that, many of the vagaries of scouting would become clearer.
    Certainly true that many miss, and whether it be an injury or just a mysterious inability to develop, scouts will surely look to place the blame elsewhere than on themselves.

    My point is this -- out of many thousands of aspiring amateur baseball players, there is good reason for the guys at the very top to be there.

    Reyes has clearly become best-case scenario for the Mets, probably better than anyone imagined he'd be at this stage of his career. And I think you're right to suggest no one would have batted an eye if he'd drifted into a career like Cristian Guzman's or Julio Lugo's. Happens all the time. But given the sheer domination of his play, it is not at all surprising that he was square in the center of prospect radars for most of his time in the minors. That's also why one can't be completely shocked by what Hamilton has done. You can see these guys coming, even if they don't all get there. Players like Pujols, who came into pro ball looking like a nobody, are a real anomaly (lending some credence to suspicions about steroid use, I'd say).
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  13. #27
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    Re: Jose Reyes

    I distinctly remember M2 pimping Reyes big time back when he had prolly more doubters than supporters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
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  14. #28
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    Re: Jose Reyes

    I don't remember anyone ever doubting Reyes. He has always been a top prospect at least I thought so.

    Redszone doubts EVERY player, so I'm not sure how that can be used as an example.

  15. #29
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    Re: Jose Reyes

    I remember several folks saying he'd never OBP over 300.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  16. #30
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    Re: Jose Reyes

    Mets are also in a class by themselves when it comes to enducing and turning the double-play ball.
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."


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