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Thread: 2007 Reds = YAAAAWWWN........

  1. #1
    Worth The Wait
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    2007 Reds = YAAAAWWWN........

    First of all, let me confess that I am pretty wrapped up in the NBA Playoffs right now-- being a Cavs fan and all, so it may help to explain this post.

    Having said that, I have watched the majority of the Reds' games so far this year, and the few I've missed, I've followed as closely as possible.

    My assessment?

    Yawn.

    I mean that in two ways.

    1. The team is not very fun to watch. Both the offensive production and the offensive approach (including line-up construction) are tough to watch. I am a fence-rider when it comes to Dunn, I don't love the guy, but I also acknowledge his strengths, but it has become fairly clear to me that the guy is simply never going to be a big run-producer in terms of RBI's. Contrary to popular opinion, I DO believe that hurts the team to a certain extent. And Narron makes it all the worse by keeping him out of the 2 hole, where I believe Dunn truly belongs.

    I am fairly pleased with the starting pitching, but the bullpen is laughable, which makes Krivsky look really, really, really bad.

    2. I see virtually no upside. It's as if the goal in building this team was to field a squad that could win no less than 77 games, or win no more than 81 games. It's one thing if we were a .500 team w/ a bunch of young guys everywhere, but we are LITTERED with veterans. And some of those veterans carry hefty contracts.

    It's as if the Reds have gotten themselves caught in between no longer wanting to be a laughingstock (which they aren't) and not really wanting to make the tough decisions to truly turn the organization around (which they aren't doing).

    The relative malaise of the Central division should keep me "interested" throughout most of the summer. While I can't see the Reds getting "hot," I also can't really see us tanking either. I think we'll basically stay the current course-- and that course will probably at least keep us in the fringes of contention. And yeah, that's more fun than being 15 games out on August 1st.

    This is a boring team, both on the field and in the "hope" department.

    I think 9-10 says it all. Might as well be 80-82.

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  3. #2
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: 2007 Reds = YAAAAWWWN........

    . . . and how does this differ from the past few years? I believe there is more hope for this team than there has been for a while.

    Krivsky came into a near-hopeless situation, and I'm very happy with what he's done. It took Bowden/O'Brien a good deal of time to make this mess, and in theory, it should take at least as long to fix it.

    Gripe all you want. I'm enjoying the team for what it is--a small-to-medium market team hamstrung by Griffey's and Milton's contracts. They probably won't win the division this year, but I believe that, with the new GM and ownership, they have more reason for optimism than the following organizations in the years to come:

    For obvioius reasons: Tampa Bay, Florida, Pittsburgh, Washington, Kansas City

    For being in the same division as the Red Sox and Yankees: Baltimore and Toronto

    Because history repeats itself: Texas, Chicago Cubs, San Diego, Colorado

    Because they have no future: Detroit, San Francisco, Seattle

  4. #3
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: 2007 Reds = YAAAAWWWN........

    Are people surprised at this? I mean this was the Twins before Johan arrived. They were Miectwourhkjfnz at first, Rivas at second, Guzman at short, Koskie at third and an outfield of Jones, Hunter and whoever they could find. They were boring, oh so boring to watch. And if they didn't play in a putrid division they wouldn't have won anything.

    But you play where they put you - however, one thing people seem to forget is how pedestrian those teams were. They see division winner and think those teams were actually good. They weren't.
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
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  5. #4
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: 2007 Reds = YAAAAWWWN........

    Another year of running in place (at best).

    People are saying that Wayne needs time to fix this club. IMO, he's taken a couple steps forward, but he's taken a lot of small steps backwards.. Examples: Cormier and Stanton won't necessarily kill the club, but they don't really help the club either, and they waste money. Obviously, Wayne has also had a major blunder which I won't bring up now.

    In summary, I'm not sure the club is that much better off than it was when DanO left. I'm not sure the club will improve upon it's W-L record from the previous year. Sure, the pen won't give up 5 runs every night, but it's STILL a liablity. Edwin vanishing has almost negated the offense Josh has added..

    I just don't see any significant progress this year.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  6. #5
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: 2007 Reds = YAAAAWWWN........

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    But you play where they put you - however, one thing people seem to forget is how pedestrian those teams were. They see division winner and think those teams were actually good. They weren't.
    Well said.

    None of those teams got to the World Series, only one even got out of the 1st round, that's not what I want, I want banners and stuff
    Go Gators!

  7. #6
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: 2007 Reds = YAAAAWWWN........

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Well said.

    None of those teams got to the World Series, only one even got out of the 1st round, that's not what I want, I want banners and stuff
    You're such a materialistic person.

  8. #7
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    Re: 2007 Reds = YAAAAWWWN........

    It's awfully early to really know what this team is going to be. The 1st couple weeks we had the best pen and the last couple we had the worst. My guess is we are somewhere in the middle. We've had a bunch of injuries as I feel Bray was a top pen guy. The fact is we need a closer and all the other places fit into place. We have a much better defensive SS and the middle is much better than last year. We have an exciting new player in Hamilton that leads all rookies in every offensive cateragory. The pitching is much improved - including Milton. AAA starters also excite me! The team is right in the thick of it despite a rough offensive start. We haven't had Griffey this past series. This line up really needs him. We also just happen to catch the wrong pitchers for Philly and Houston is playing out there butt. It's all good! Just early. I for one am still very excited about this year and the moves we made. I still could have my early season blinders on, but so be it!
    And This One Belongs to the REDS!!!

  9. #8
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    Re: 2007 Reds = YAAAAWWWN........

    You think this is bad; wait till the injuries start to mount up.

    This team is Pirates-bad. If Harang or Arroyo miss a month or so, this team will lose 100 games.

    And there are no Santanas on the horizon. Or Joe Nathans for that matter.

  10. #9
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: 2007 Reds = YAAAAWWWN........

    Well, we are hoping that Homer is our Santana.

    Then again - Harang and Arroyo are greater than Radke and Milton circa 2001.

    Still, I am not looking forward to the slightly above average starting pitching, average bullpen, very good defense and poor offense era that we seem headed for. Its a recipe for 83 wins teams.
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
    - - Rowdy Roddy Piper

    "It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. I am not a big man"
    - - Fletch

  11. #10
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    Re: 2007 Reds = YAAAAWWWN........

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    You think this is bad; wait till the injuries start to mount up.

    This team is Pirates-bad. If Harang or Arroyo miss a month or so, this team will lose 100 games.

    And there are no Santanas on the horizon. Or Joe Nathans for that matter.
    Maybe Wayne can orchestrate a deal for two like them out of a league average catcher...well, I guess we can wait for the PTBNL for which we traded LaRue and 3MM.

  12. #11
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: 2007 Reds = YAAAAWWWN........

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Edwin vanishing has almost negated the offense Josh has added..
    How is Edwin getting off to a slow start Waynes fault? This almost implies that Wayne has somehow made a mistake by going with Edwin. Maybe I am missing something?
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  13. #12
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: 2007 Reds = YAAAAWWWN........

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    How is Edwin getting off to a slow start Waynes fault? This almost implies that Wayne has somehow made a mistake by going with Edwin. Maybe I am missing something?
    It's not Wayne's fault that EdE is struggling.. I almost put "Not Wayne's fault" after that statement However, it is Wayne's fault that the only offense he added this offseason was Conine.

    Yeah, he added Hamilton, but obviously no one was counting on him to be the cleanup hitter..That was just a pleasant surprise.

    My point is that while we've gotten a bonus in Hamilton, that has been offset by EdE vanishing.. thus, the offense continues to sputter, particularly against LH pitchers, just like last year.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  14. #13
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    Re: 2007 Reds = YAAAAWWWN........

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    Well, we are hoping that Homer is our Santana.

    Then again - Harang and Arroyo are greater than Radke and Milton circa 2001.

    Still, I am not looking forward to the slightly above average starting pitching, average bullpen, very good defense and poor offense era that we seem headed for. Its a recipe for 83 wins teams.
    Homer is not Santana. He's not even in the same universe with Santana. Santana is a Pedro/R. Johnson once-in-a-generation talent.

    And if this team, as currently constituted, wins 83 games I'll buy every person on this board the alcoholic beverage of his or her choice.

  15. #14
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: 2007 Reds = YAAAAWWWN........

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    And if this team, as currently constituted, wins 83 games I'll buy every person on this board the alcoholic beverage of his or her choice.
    Why don't you be a real dare devil and make the same bet with the "as currently constituted" caveat removed?

    I mean, we all know Wayne is no Jocketty or Schuerholz (as you occasionally remind us) so you shouldn't have to worry that he might make a move to improve the team.

    Live on the edge :
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  16. #15
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: 2007 Reds = YAAAAWWWN........

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Homer is not Santana. He's not even in the same universe with Santana. Santana is a Pedro/R. Johnson once-in-a-generation talent.

    And if this team, as currently constituted, wins 83 games I'll buy every person on this board the alcoholic beverage of his or her choice.
    You misunderstand me - I'm not saying this team will win 83 games. I'm saying that Wayne's model, i.e., what he seems to me and me alone to be building, is an 83 win year in year out team.
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
    - - Rowdy Roddy Piper

    "It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. I am not a big man"
    - - Fletch


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