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Thread: Cincinnati Reds - Gloom & Doom and a bright future

  1. #1
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    Cincinnati Reds - Gloom & Doom and a bright future

    Despite the title Iíve given this thread there are two reasons I havenít yet given up on the 2007 Reds, First itís hardly possible the hitting and fielding weíve seen in the last 14 games can continue all year. Secondly the starting pitching has been remarkably good so far. So, if the hitting and fielding return to expected norms and the starting pitching doesnít, thereís hope.

    Regardless of what happens the rest of this year, I havenít been as optimistic about the near term future of this club since the days of the BRM.

    1. Minor leagues - Iíve been a Reds fan since 1939 and Iíve never seen a Reds farm system as deep and talented as the current one. Listed below are players in the farm system, in no particular order(Iím sure Iíve missed a few), who have the potential to be real contributors at the ML level. A dozen of them have all star potential. Sure they wonít all realize their potential but if even one third do so weíll have a great influx of young talent to the Reds w/i 1-3 years. In addition, our extra high draft choices this year could keep the reinforcements coming.


    R. Asadoorian
    Johnny Cueto
    Josh Roenicke
    Drew Stubbs
    Daryl Thompson
    Bobby Livingston
    Jared Burton
    Juan Francisco
    Jay Bruce
    Carlos Fisher
    Chris Valaika
    Joey Votto's
    Phil Dumatrait
    Rafael Gonzalez
    Logan Parker
    Brad Salmon
    Calvin Medlock
    Homer Bailey
    Richie Gardner
    Milton Loo
    Travis Wood
    Sean Watson
    Chris Dickerson
    B.J. Szymanski
    Josh Ravin
    Danny Dorn
    Tyler Pelland
    Sam LeCure
    James Avery
    Camilo Vazquez




    2. Young core - although everyone is currently struggling on the ML level, the reds have a young core most of whom I expect to be very good for several years(see below).


    Josh Hamilton
    Aaron Harang
    Bronson Arroyo
    Matt Belisle
    Todd Coffey
    Jon Coutlangus
    Edwin Encarnacion
    Brandon Phillips
    Chris Denorfia
    Bill Bray
    Adam Dunn(? Age, salary)
    David Ross(? Who is the real David Ross)



    3. Salary relief - Between Griffey, Milton, our senior citizen bullpen, and Dunn(if we donít resign him) the Reds have more than $20M($30 if we let Dunn go) of salary relief in the next two years which can be used to plug any holes our core and minor leagues can't fill(catcher?)



    At least for me, the agony of the Reds current streak of poor play is tempered considerably by what looks like a bright future.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Cincinnati Reds - Gloom & Doom and a bright future

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
    At least for me, the agony of the Reds current streak of poor play is tempered considerably by what looks like a bright future.
    So bright one might feel compelled, even, to wear shades.

    The hitting isn't this bad and the bullpen has already reverted to form/regressed to their mean. I expect the club to play better than they have thus far, but not much better.
    "It's easier to give up. I'm not a very vocal player. I lead by example. I take the attitude that I've got to go out and do it. Because of who I am, I've got to give everything I've got to come back."
    -Ken Griffey Jr.

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    Re: Cincinnati Reds - Gloom & Doom and a bright future

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
    3. Salary relief - Between Griffey, Milton, our senior citizen bullpen, and Dunn(if we donít resign him) the Reds have more than $20M($30 if we let Dunn go) of salary relief in the next two years which can be used to plug any holes our core and minor leagues can't fill(catcher?)



    At least for me, the agony of the Reds current streak of poor play is tempered considerably by what looks like a bright future.
    Great post. It's nice to see the bright side. In regards to number 3 above, let's hope they don't go Mike Brown and claim the salary relief has already been eaten into by extending Harang and Arroyo. While these contracts will eat into the available dollars some, there should still be some money available to go fill some holes. Not to mention the 4 million that comes off the books when Lohse leaves (either via trade or FA).
    I'm just like everybody else. I have two arms, two legs and 4,000 hits."

    -Pete Rose

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    Re: Cincinnati Reds - Gloom & Doom and a bright future

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
    3. Salary relief - Between Griffey, Milton, our senior citizen bullpen, and Dunn(if we donít resign him) the Reds have more than $20M($30 if we let Dunn go) of salary relief in the next two years which can be used to plug any holes our core and minor leagues can't fill(catcher?)
    Don't think griffey will be much relief. Believe alot of his salary was backloaded -we may be suffering that one for 16 or so years

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    Re: Cincinnati Reds - Gloom & Doom and a bright future

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotater Cuff View Post
    Don't think griffey will be much relief. Believe alot of his salary was backloaded -we may be suffering that one for 16 or so years

    I'm pretty sure the Reds have been funding that deferred salary all along.
    By funding the deferred $ in an annunity it cost a lot less.

  7. #6
    So long old friend rotnoid's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati Reds - Gloom & Doom and a bright future

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
    I'm pretty sure the Reds have been funding that deferred salary all along.
    By funding the deferred $ in an annunity it cost a lot less.
    That's the party line anyway. They always claim the whole thing towards the year's salary numbers, so it's reasonable to assume they've been funding it.
    I'm just like everybody else. I have two arms, two legs and 4,000 hits."

    -Pete Rose

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    Re: Cincinnati Reds - Gloom & Doom and a bright future

    in regards to our deep farm system; how well were we ranked amongst the 30 MLB teams in this area by the perceived experts in their last rounds of rankings?

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    Re: Cincinnati Reds - Gloom & Doom and a bright future

    Quote Originally Posted by foltza View Post
    in regards to our deep farm system; how well were we ranked amongst the 30 MLB teams in this area by the perceived experts in their last rounds of rankings?
    12th out of the 30 teams by baseball america. Up from 30 last year. Obviously a huge jump.

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati Reds - Gloom & Doom and a bright future

    I agree with you assesment that help is coming. I just wonder how helpful that help will be. The reds entire future is resting on a whole lot of unknowns. For the future of this club the reds need Baily, Bruce, and Votto to live up to their hype. If they do then this club could be scary in the future. What organizational talent does is make it easier to trade off players who are not playing. Look at the indians run in the late 90's and the quality of players they were able to trade becaue of the players they had. For example if Valakia becomes the real deal then the reds would be able to move Phillips in the future. Or maybe Juan Francisco becomes the air apparent to 3b the reds can move EE if his value is high. This can happen vice versa if the reds are set for the next 5 year at a position they can trade one of their prospects for the present.

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    Re: Cincinnati Reds - Gloom & Doom and a bright future

    Quote Originally Posted by foltza View Post
    in regards to our deep farm system; how well were we ranked amongst the 30 MLB teams in this area by the perceived experts in their last rounds of rankings?

    I think the last rating I saw was around 16 but we're outperforming expectations this year. It will probably rise unless our guys fall on their collective faces.

    Three years ago any of the following would qualify as our best prospect by many here at Redszone and this group doesn't even include our top 3 - Bailey, Votto, or Bruce.

    Drew Stubbs
    Daryl Thompson
    Bobby Livingston
    Carlos Fisher
    Chris Valaika
    Phil Dumatrait
    Last edited by Stingray; 04-24-2007 at 02:45 PM.

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    Re: Cincinnati Reds - Gloom & Doom and a bright future

    Any team, no matter how awful, is not further than a couple of seasons from greatness. Teams can be and have been turned around in two seasons; and if a team isn't turned around completely, they should be very, very close.

    If a team isn't performing or isn't close, then the GM of that team is underperforming or failing. Two years is an eternity in MLB. Particularly in this age of relative parity.

  13. #12
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati Reds - Gloom & Doom and a bright future

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Any team, no matter how awful, is not further than a couple of seasons from greatness. Teams can be and have been turned around in two seasons; and if a team isn't turned around completely, they should be very, very close.

    If a team isn't performing or isn't close, then the GM of that team is underperforming or failing. Two years is an eternity in MLB. Particularly in this age of relative parity.
    Tell that to the reds, pittsburgh, tampa, kc, baltimore, etc.

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    Re: Cincinnati Reds - Gloom & Doom and a bright future

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Any team, no matter how awful, is not further than a couple of seasons from greatness. Teams can be and have been turned around in two seasons; and if a team isn't turned around completely, they should be very, very close.

    If a team isn't performing or isn't close, then the GM of that team is underperforming or failing. Two years is an eternity in MLB. Particularly in this age of relative parity.

    Not all teams will see a $20M+ drop in payroll in 2 years or have the number of quality prospects the Reds currently have.

    Also I'm certianly not claiming the future is assured. I'm just pointing out there are reasons to be optimistic which can be easily forgotten when things look bleak.

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    Re: Cincinnati Reds - Gloom & Doom and a bright future

    I really don't see a need for gloom and doom. The season's only 3 weeks old.

    They've had a bad week offensively but they'll get it in gear.

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    Re: Cincinnati Reds - Gloom & Doom and a bright future

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Tell that to the reds, pittsburgh, tampa, kc, baltimore, etc.
    As I said, the good news is that ANY team is not further than two years from greatness.

    The bad news is that you have to have a great GM.


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