An Adam Dunn did you know?

[44Magnum]

Adam Dunn is the Reds career leader in HR's per at bat ratio with 14.4.

I'm as frustrated as anyone with Dunn, but I thought I would try and be positive.

[mroby85]

dunn has power, there is no doubting that, but there definately is doubt when it comes to his abillity as a pure hitter.

[Always Red]

dunn has power, there is no doubting that, but there definately is doubt when it comes to his abillity as a pure hitter.

what is a "pure hitter"?

[mroby85]

a guy that can get runners over, or hit a sac fly when you need it. basically a guy that handles the bat well and hits for a good average. I believe that term was used by Ted Williams.

[rotnoid]

what is a "pure hitter"?

You got me thinking, so I did a google search for "pure hitter." After I got past the ads for a training device called the Pure Hitter, I found a debate on the difference between a pure hitter and a professional hitter. The argument seems to be whether there is a difference or not. The best explanation I could find was basically that pure hitters have natural talent and professional hitters are made by practice. I'm not sure how you can tell the difference at the majors among the top hitters in the game, but one site said that pure hitters could roll out of bed Christmas morning and hit line drives up the middle. There's no statistical evidence here, it's mostly speculation and opinion. So, I'm guessing we should call up Dunn after opening up the stocking next December 25 and see if he wants to take some BP.

Perhaps the only way to see the difference between pure hitters and professional hitters is to go to a little league field. The kid swatting dingers in tee ball could be a pure hitter. The kid missing the tee and hurting dad in the groin, (while he earns $10,000 for America's funniest home video), probably is not. Of course, this all presupposes a natural ability to hit. It's nature versus nurture on a sports stage. Which is right? Don't ask me, I'm just trying to spark conversation...

[Always Red]

a guy that can get runners over, or hit a sac fly when you need it. basically a guy that handles the bat well and hits for a good average. I believe that term was used by Ted Williams.

Well, I agree that Dunn doesn't do things very well. He does create a lot of runs for the Reds, though.

[AmarilloRed]

He has always been able to hit home runs. He is country-strong. If he could hit .270 and drive people in he would be a much better player.

[TeamBoone]

a guy that can get runners over, or hit a sac fly when you need it. basically a guy that handles the bat well and hits for a good average. I believe that term was used by Ted Williams.

Sounds like Sean Casey to me.... and we all know how 'loved' he was on this board. Most thought he was worthless.

[TeamBoone]

Well, I agree that Dunn doesn't do things very well. He does create a lot of runs for the Reds, though.

Not according to Marty... yesterday he stressed (and repeated) that he's a non-run producer. I argued the point on the game thread the same as you... I believe he's led the team in RBI for the past three years.

No one responded.

[Always Red]

Not according to Marty... yesterday he stressed (and repeated) that he's a non-run producer. I argued the point on the game thread the same as you... I believe he's led the team in RBI for the past three years.

No one responded.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...C_active.shtml

TB, I love Marty, and I agree with about 80% of what he says. The above link is a list of all active MLB players ranked by Runs Created (RC).

The only player who is Dunn's age who has created more runs than him is Sir Albert, who is truly an incredible hitter. No one younger than Dunn has created more runs than Adam has, and only Pujols has "out RC'd" him.

Marty is wrong about this. I understand his frustration with Dunn. The thing that frustrates me the most about Adam is when he takes a called 3rd strike with RISP. I don't have numbers on it, but it happens enough that I notice it, and a poster mentioned it yesterday also, IIRC.

[Yachtzee]

a guy that can get runners over, or hit a sac fly when you need it. basically a guy that handles the bat well and hits for a good average. I believe that term was used by Ted Williams.

Actually, I think Ted Williams would probably look more favorably on a patient Adam Dunn-type hitter than a guy who slaps at the ball and hits a lot of sac flies. He himself wasn't exactly known for things like sac flies and he preferred to move the runners over by waiting for his pitch and driving it. IIRC, he was also subject to a shift similar to what Adam Dunn faces. I think I heard he used to smash his hits right through it rather than deprive himself of power by trying to slap the ball to the other field. I could be mistaken though. There are folks here who have had the opportunity to read is "Science of Hitting" who would be able to shed more light on his hitting philosophy.

[Yachtzee]

Not according to Marty... yesterday he stressed (and repeated) that he's a non-run producer. I argued the point on the game thread the same as you... I believe he's led the team in RBI for the past three years.

No one responded.

It always seems to be the way when talking about Dunn. Some folks will look at Ks and BARISP, but conveniently ignore the fact that he leads the team in important categories like not making outs and scoring runs. Raise that fact and people go quiet or redirect. He's not the perfect hitter, but to say he's not a run producer is willful ignorance.

The more I think about it, the more I think guys like Marty don't like Ks because it looks embarrassing rather than any kind of time spend determining whether Ks are worse than any other kind of out.

[Joseph]

Would people complain less about Dunn if he hit .270, with 20 hrs, 90 RBI and only struck out about 110 times a year with say 80 walks?

[BRM]

Would people complain less about Dunn if he hit .270, with 20 hrs, 90 RBI and only struck out about 110 times a year with say 80 walks?

Absolutely. It's all about K's and Batting Average for lots of fans.

[dougdirt]

A pure hitter is a guy who moves runners over and hits sac flies? Sac flies are pure luck. No one goes to the plate thinking 'Im going to hit this ball 280 feet in the air' then goes and does it. If guys could control that wouldnt they go out there and go 'Im going to his this thing 280 feet into the gap'? A sac fly is a failed hit that in turn produced something for the team when it wasn't what you were trying to do.

I had a guy tell me yesterday he would take a guy who hits .280 with a .400 OBP with 20 HRs, 100 RBI and 50 K's over Adam Dunn every day of the week. I agree with him completely. Since 2004 that season has happened twice. Barry Bonds in 2004 and Albert Pujols in 2006.