Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 53

Thread: Managing ain't what it used to be

  1. #1
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    16,601

    Managing ain't what it used to be

    With the angry mob of villagers steadily approaching with torches and pitchforks in hand, I often wonder why anyone would want to be a major league manager.

    We've romanticized the position over the years. We love to see old film clips of Casey Stengel entertaining the writers with his Stengelese. Leo Durocher, man what a character. Never met a microphone he didn't like. And what could be better than an Earl Weaver tirade or a Sweet Lou rant?

    We love those kind of characters. They get to tune up star athletes and put them in their place. Just like we would if we had a chance, eh?

    Well, things are different. The old days are gone. What we have now are athletes who make more in two days than the manager makes all year. The threat of demotion isn't a shadow of what it was back when every team had hundreds of players in the minor leagues ready to take your job if you were out sick for a week. Now we've got asset management more than the merit system.

    A modern manager either understands the new realities of dealing with multi-millionaires sitting on his bench, or he goes on to sell insurance or used cars and remembers the good old days.

    The modern manager now has to teach fundamentals to major league players. Back when every team had many more minor league affiliates, you didn't make it to the show if you had glaring weaknesses in your fundamental game. Or if you did, it was because you were a stud player who filled an immediate need.

    The modern manager has to deal with a new era of press relations. The press thinks they're the story very often now, and many times would love to be the guy who nails a big sports figure in a gaff.

    The modern manager can't count on his veterans policing themselves. You're lucky if you have a clubhouse with guys like Frank Robinson (as a player) who hold kangaroo courts and dispense clubhouse justice over lack of hustle or mental errors. Instead, our manager gets to do this himself, in the absence of any authority figures in the Reds locker room.

    And our modern manager gets to listen to our hero Franchester who smiles to his face and blasts him on the air. Mr."Tell it like it is"... Mr."I'll be here when you're gone" .... blaming Narron for the players lack of fundamental he inherited from guys he never coached in the minor leagues. So, if they can't perform what used to be considered basic skills, it's his fault. He should have been able to straighten all that out in spring training. What a load of crap.

    Jerry Narron is still learning on the job. It's the Reds way in the last decade. We hire guys like Narron whom we don't have to pay much where we think we see the potential to become a good manager. We don't pay for the Sweet Lous of the world.

    Then we assemble a team with a fraction of the payroll of teams like the Yankees and expect the manager to spin straw into gold.

    We throw them down a well, don't throw them a rope, and get mad at them when they drown.

    Still, you ask anyone who ever held the position, and they will gladly sign up for the next round of abuse. They ALL are hired with the absolute certainty that someday they'll be fired. That's their reality. That's what their families all know. That's the best they can hope for.

    These guys must really love the game.
    Last edited by RFS62; 04-28-2007 at 09:35 AM.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,560

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    I think money is a factor. Managers are frequently guys who didn't get set for life as players and they need to keep working. Even low paid Managers make 400K or 500K per year. I'd try it for a couple years for that.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  4. #3
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    10,732

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Good post. There's a glass-ceiling perception among good minor league managers who did NOT play in the majors that they have to be very lucky or really buddy-buddy with management to ever sniff the majors. Not sure that's true, given the Jim Leylands of the world, but it's the perception.

    There are also a lot of "old school" minor league managers who feel like the book Moneyball hurt their chances of every moving up to the majors or high minors. Paranoia perhaps, but that's the perception.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  5. #4
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    16,601

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    There's a glass-ceiling perception among good minor league managers who did NOT play in the majors that they have to be very lucky or really buddy-buddy with management to ever sniff the majors. Not sure that's true, given the Jim Leylands of the world, but it's the perception.

    There are also a lot of "old school" minor league managers who feel like the book Moneyball hurt their chances of every moving up to the majors or high minors. Paranoia perhaps, but that's the perception.

    I remember for years hearing about how we should give Dave Miley a shot at the Reds job.

    "Old school" oozing from every pore. A perfect guy for the minors where the players still had to toe the line or be out of baseball.

    Once he finally got to deal with the big league ego, he folded like a lawn chair. He wasn't prepared for the sensibilities of the modern day player.

    On the other hand, he did pick up a couple of nice chairs as parting gifts.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  6. #5
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Oakwood, OH
    Posts
    11,564

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Great post, '62. I wonder if the modern managers bother to read the modern posters that rip them on the internet? I hope not.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  7. #6
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    16,601

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966 View Post
    I wonder if the modern managers bother to read the modern posters that rip them on the internet? I hope not.

    I almost went back and added a paragraph about teh interweb and radio talk shows. We sure is smrt. They should listen to us more.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  8. #7
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    8,768

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Did Durocher ever put Wllie Mays sixth in the line-up to slot a light-hitting SS ahead of him in the order? Did Earl Weaver ever hit Mark Belanger fifth and Eddie Murray sixth right behind him?

  9. #8
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    41,612

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Did Durocher ever put Wllie Mays sixth in the line-up to slot a light-hitting SS ahead of him in the order? Did Earl Weaver ever hit Mark Belanger fifth and Eddie Murray sixth right behind him?
    Durocher was lucky enough to have Alvin Dark as SS when he had Mays.

    He did bat Belanger 1st or 2nd over 1600 times. Knowing Weaver he would have sat Dunn against Snelling, if he was worried he'd have said that his timing was messed up enough without having to face a guy like Snelling.

  10. #9
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    34,167

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    RFS, did John McGraw get this much criticism back in your day?
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

  11. #10
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    27,928

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    I almost went back and added a paragraph about teh interweb and radio talk shows. We sure is smrt. They should listen to us more.
    And we'll be here when Marty's gone.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  12. #11
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    5,346

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Did Durocher ever put Wllie Mays sixth in the line-up to slot a light-hitting SS ahead of him in the order? Did Earl Weaver ever hit Mark Belanger fifth and Eddie Murray sixth right behind him?
    The comparison of any player (except Jr. as a Mariner) on the Reds with Willie Mays is laughable.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  13. #12
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    8,768

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Sigh. I was NOT comparing them, other than to note that Dunn is the Reds' most run productive bat, and he was stuck behind Alex G last night. I am guessing the Giants did NOT shove their most productive bat behind an offensive black hole. Ever. There was no good excuse for that last night. On any level.

  14. #13
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Cincy West
    Posts
    4,728

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    In 1954, Willie Mays hit .345, with 41 HR and 110 RBI, and batted 6th nearly the entire months of May, June, July and the first part of August.

    http://www.retrosheet.org/

    Lockman, Dark (SS), Thompson, Irvin and Mueller all hit in front of Mays during this time. To be fair, Dark had a pretty good year in 1954, with 20 HR and a BA of .293. Lockman, though, was a relatively light-hitting 1B.

    Narron is trying to shake things up; Dunn (and EE) has been struggling and Gonzalez has been hitting the ball well. I don't think it's that big of a deal, to be honest, and I expect Gonzo will be back down in the 7 or 8 spot soon enough, where he belongs.

  15. #14
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    8,768

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Is that right? See, live and learn.

    50 years later, I hereby call that managerial decision with Mays rock stupid.

  16. #15
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    West N. Carolina
    Posts
    55,507

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    And we'll be here when Marty's gone.
    Well that makes me smile today, thanks M2
    Go Gators!


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25