Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 53

Thread: Managing ain't what it used to be

  1. #16
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Cincy West
    Posts
    5,016

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Is that right? See, live and learn.

    50 years later, I hereby call that managerial decision with Mays rock stupid.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    12,324

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Nice post, RFS. And you're right, the world of managing a MLB team has changed dramatically. The problem as I see it though is too many sitting back and bemoaning about how things have changed rather than changing along with it. This is common in any facet of life when things change. There's a contingent of people who sit back and see an opportunity and those who sit back and talk about how it ain't how it used to be. The former are the ones that find a way to thrive in the new environment, while the latter wind up withering away and becoming irrelevant.

    Baseball has changed. So if you still want to be a part of it, then you sure as hell better change too, because it isn't going to return to the good ole' days anytime soon. This is incredibly obvious in watching today's managers manage. As a whole, the current crop of managers are stuck in a bygone era and have not adapted to the current climate of the game. It's clear that the characterisics that made a manager great way back when are not the same that make them great today.

    So what makes a great modern day manager? I don't really know. I'm not sure that anyone knows yet because too few organizations have looked for a new world manager. They continune to throw old school managers out there. They need to rethink what a manager's role is and what would make one successful. Maybe they need managers with degrees in Psychology. Maybe they need managers who know little about the game, but know how to handle egos. I really don't know what the answer is, but I know that it's not the crop of mangers out there now who are stuck in the past.

    Things change. So what? It's the circle of life. Either evolve or become extinct. I don't feel all that sorry for managers who refuse to see that things have changed and are still trying to manage like it's the 70s or 80s.
    Last edited by MWM; 04-28-2007 at 03:39 PM.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  4. #18
    Member Marc D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,768

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    Nice post, RFS. And you're right, the world of managing a MLB team has changed dramatically. The problem as I see it though is too many sitting back and bemoaning about how things have changed rather than changing along with it. This is common in any facet of life when things change. There's a contingent of people who sit back and see an opportunity and those who sit back and talk about how it ain't how it used to be. The former are the ones that find a way to thrive in the new environment, while the latter wind up withering away and becoming irrelevant.

    Baseball has changed. So if you still want to be a part of it, then you sure as hell better change too, because it isn't going to return to the good ole' days anytime soon. This is incredibly obvious in watching today's managers manage. As a whole, the current crop of managers are stuck in a bygone era and have not adapted to the current climate of the game. It's clear that the characterisics that made a manager great way back when are not the same that make them great today.

    So what makes a great modern day manager? I don't really know. I'm not sure that anyone knows yet because too few organizations have looked for a new world manager. They continune to throw old school managers out there. They need to rethink what a manager's role is and what would make one successful. Maybe they need managers with degrees in Psychology. Maybe they need managers who know little about the game, but know how to handle egos. I really don't know what the answer is, but I know that it's not the crop of mangers out there now who are stuck in the past.

    Things change. So what? It's the circle of life. Either evolve or become extinct. I don't feel all that sorry for managers who refuse to see that things have changed and are still trying to manage like it's the 70s or 80s.
    Too bad I'm all repped out.

  5. #19
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,762

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    Nice post, RFS. And you're right, the world of managing a MLB team has changed dramatically. The problem as I see it though is too many sitting back and bemoaning about how things have changed rather than changing along with it. This is common in any facet of life when things change. There's a contingent of people who sit back and see an opportunity and those who sit back and talk about how it ain't how it used to be. The former are the ones that find a way to thrive in the new environment, while the latter wind up withering away and becoming irrelevant.

    Baseball has changed. So if you still want to be a part of it, then you sure as hell better change too, because it isn't going to return to the good ole' days anytime soon. This is incredibly obvious in watching today's managers manage. As a whole, the current crop of managers are stuck in a bygone era and have not adapted to the current climate of the game. It's clear that the characterisics that made a manager great way back when are not the same that make them great today.

    So what makes a great modern day manager? I don't really know. I'm not sure that anyone knows yet because too few organizations have looked for a new world manager. They continune to throw old school managers out there. They need to rethink what a manager's role is and what would make one successful. Maybe they need managers with degrees in Psychology. Maybe they need managers who know little about the game, but know how to handle egos. I really don't know what the answer is, but I know that it's not the crop of mangers out there now who are stuck in the past.

    Things change. So what? It's the circle of life. Either evolve or become extinct. I don't feel all that sorry for managers who refuse to see that things have changed and are still trying to manage like it's the 70s or 80s.
    This post should be archived.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  6. #20
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Out Wayne
    Posts
    22,795

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    The trend in major league baseball for more than a century has been for the manager to have less and less control. John McGraw in the first three decades of the Twentieth Century was master of all he surveyed with the NY Giants. He not only was the manager; he in effect was general manager, chief of scouts, and the Supreme Leader. While a different personality than McGraw, Connie Mack was if anything even more powerful--while no owner would dare challenge McGraw, Mack WAS the owner.
    Managers lost authority as the game became too complex for one person to be in charge of virtually everything. No manager under Branch Rickey in the 1930s-1950s ever had near the power McGraw and his fellow managers did earlier in that century.
    With the increase in press coverage, and more critical press coverage, managers became less the lords of their domain in the public's eyes. With the great increase in players' salaries, and the advent of free agency, players were no longer at a manager's mercy.
    Adapt or die.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  7. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    5,987

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    When this team starts losing it's always the managers fault, for the most part.....especially if it is a manager who no one really likes.

    So AG was ahead of AD despite being on a little tear. JN wants to get the offense going and Dunn is struggling. Is this not allowed beacuse it is a favorite of RZ? Do you think this is why the Reds lost?

  8. #22
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Rainelle, WV
    Posts
    8,110

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    This post should be archived.
    Great posts by both RFS62 and MWM.

    Everything has changed so much since I first started watching baseball as a boy in the 60's. I can remember Fred Hutchinson ordering players to take on a 3-0 count. Every time. Times have changed. Pitchers used to finish a season with 12-10 complete games. No more. A good ERA was below 3.00 and a 4.00 was bad. You have to change with the times. Problem is that the paradeims have changed. And when you're heading toward your 6th decade, that's tough. I imagine that's some of what we're seeing in Cincinnati.
    www.ris-news.com
    "You only have to bat a thousand in two things; flying and heart transplants. Everything else you can go 4-for-5."
    -Beano Cook

  9. #23
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Land of the Lost
    Posts
    7,256

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Gone are the days when a manager could rouse his charges with a hearty "Go get 'em, fellas, so that we can get out of here and bound some Budweisers."
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  10. #24
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    26,668

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Sigh. I was NOT comparing them, other than to note that Dunn is the Reds' most run productive bat, and he was stuck behind Alex G last night. I am guessing the Giants did NOT shove their most productive bat behind an offensive black hole. Ever. There was no good excuse for that last night. On any level.
    When an offensive is struggling as bad as the Reds have been, ANY managers will shuffle a lineup to play that "hot bat". Gonzo, not Dunn, is that hot bat right now. It's not about what have you done for me in the past; but what are you doing for me lately. Over the last week, here is what the two have down....

    Code:
                 G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB  BA  OBP  SLG 
    Gonzalez     6 25 6 10 2 1  2   5   0 .400 .400 .800 
    Dunn         6 19 3 3  2 0  1   1   0 .158 .273 .421
    And one can go back even farther with Dunn to the last 2 1/2 weeks. Since April 11th he has had 3 RBIs and 1 HR. That is totally UNACCEPTABLE.

    As much of a fan as I am of Dunn - he needs to be kicked in the A$$ big time. He looks terrible at the plate.

    And for the year so far?....

    Code:
                AB R  H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS  OBP  SLG  OPS  AVG 
    Gonzalez    76 8  24 4  1  2  9   5 11  0 0  .354 .474 .827 .316 
    Dunn        85 15 22 4  0  5 10  13 32  5 0  .357 .482 .839 .259
    Is it likely to stay this way? Odds say it won't. But you play the hot bat. And if I was Dunn I'd be embarassed that the likes of a Gonzo is putting up similar production right now. Whose next? Castro?


    Good post rfs.....

    Many deride or downplay how important an "intangible" such as leadership is on a team/in that clubhouse. I'm talking about that player(s) who aren't afraid to call someone out who is making bonehead plays, costing games, and basically have their head up their collective butt.

    Many would agree that Vaughn's leadership was very instrumental to this team in '99. Bob Hertzel's book "The Big Red Machine: The Inside Story of Baseball's Best Team" emphasized how important this was with the '75 Reds when they came out of the gate and stunk it up pretty bad due to poor/lackluster play.

    It was the players who intervened in that clubhouse.

    I don't see that on this team. They may all play and get along well like buddies, and maybe that is the problem - they are too chummy.They are afraid of hurting their pals feelings. And with some of the young players that we have on this team they need to see a Rose or Vaughn "type" personality in that clubhouse.

    Friends don't let friends play "drunk".
    Last edited by GAC; 04-29-2007 at 06:23 AM.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  11. #25
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    9,027

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    GAC, someone said it elsewhere, but moving Alex G up AFTER he had a rare good game or two is the equivalent of a blackjack player chasing his bets after winning a few hands. Over the long haul, you put the guys in the spots where they are most likely to succeed. Alex G should NEVER hit fifth. For anyone.

  12. #26
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    16,601

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    GAC, someone said it elsewhere, but moving Alex G up AFTER he had a rare good game or two is the equivalent of a blackjack player chasing his bets after winning a few hands. Over the long haul, you put the guys in the spots where they are most likely to succeed. Alex G should NEVER hit fifth. For anyone.


    No offense, but that blackjack analogy is simply terrible.

    The Reds moved Alex up when they saw that he was locked in.

    Look at his splits since St. Louis. He's been tearing the cover off the ball.

    And stats aren't the only factor used to make these decisions. Very often a player can be raking but be BABIP unlucky. You're rarely playing exactly the way your numbers reflect. A .300 hitter doesn't always hit .300. He has hot and cold streaks. That's why advance scouting is so important. You want to know who's hot and who's not at the CURRENT TIME.

    It's the difference between macro and micro evaluation. Both have their place. You have to take full advantage of the times when a player is hot to get the full effect of his abilities. That's one reason changing lineups around doesn't bother me much.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  13. #27
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Originally posted by RFS62:

    No offense, but that blackjack analogy is simply terrible.
    I would have to agree with that.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  14. #28
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    9,027

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    It bothers me because it is once again the Reds miscasting a guy. I relaxed about Alex G's signing, after a fashion, because of the whole we're-getting-glove thing, but his signing should NOT have been a doorway to slot his bat in the middle of the line-up. Period. It's a bad spot for him, and they are now three days into a bad spot for him.

    And I know this is the wrong thread to maintain that, since I am among the staunchest of Narron defenders, but this kind of move from him is exactly why I have such a hard time taking him seriously. For all the good he does (good repoire with players, the Hamilton thing), this kind of stuff drives me nuts on the other side of the ledger.

  15. #29
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    That's one reason changing lineups around doesn't bother me much.


    Particularly when you don't have a consistently dominant type lineup that does all the right things regularly. This team has demonstrated early that it is anything but consistent. Play the hot hand.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  16. #30
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    9,027

    Re: Managing ain't what it used to be

    Ah, the "do the right things" cult. I yield. By all means, let's put a horrific OBP/OPS guy on balance 5th as punishment because of the "do the right things" alleged shortcomings of this team. Awesome.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25