Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 29 of 29

Thread: NY Times: Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard

  1. #16
    Yay!
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Middletown, Ohio
    Posts
    7,393

    Re: NY Times: Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    Every parent has their hopes and dreams that their child will be a doctor, lawyer, great scholar, president, whatever.
    Something my father taught me at a young age is that there are plenty of doctors, lawyers, scholars, and yes, even Presidents, that aren't worth a darn as human beings. Yet there are plenty of mechanics, ditch-diggers, clerks, plumbers, and so on that are worthy of admiration.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    24,706

    Re: NY Times: Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard

    I think it's interesting that academic elitism and classism get under people's skins, but the classism exhibited by the captains of industry somehow doesn't.

    Is it based on the misty-eyed notion that the capitalist got to where he is by the sweat of his brow but the academic nob inherits his spot through some kind of feudal primogeniture?

    It's an honest question. Outside of outliers like Ken Lay and Jeffrey Skilling, Americans seem fine and dandy having their backs flayed in corporate class rigidity, but they get snipey when they smell academic bluebloodism. Why?

  4. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Northern Ky
    Posts
    4,801

    Re: NY Times: Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard

    I heard on the news several months ago that there are more people in law school than there are current lawyers practicing. Very overpopulated field right now.

  5. #19
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    10,733

    Re: NY Times: Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamDunn View Post
    I heard on the news several months ago that there are more people in law school than there are current lawyers practicing. Very overpopulated field right now.
    That statistic sounds suspect. If you figure that there's fewer than 200 accredited law schools, and the average student body is about 500, that means around 100,000 students are in law school.

    There are 45,000 lawyers in Massachusetts alone.

    Nevertheless, the point is well taken. There are more people going to law school than there are GOOD jobs for lawyers.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  6. #20
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    10,733

    Re: NY Times: Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard

    Wonderful article. Thanks for sharing. I got rejected from an Ivy league school, and was lucky to get into the school I went to. Today (like the author), I couldn't get in with the SAT score from 17 years ago.

    I will say that being in the same city as Harvard, it takes more than "connections" to get in. The school rejects members of royal families and family members of donors who give millions.

    George Bush could NOT get into Yale today with his grades/LSATs from yesteryear.

    Also, in Harvard's defense, if you come from a family that makes less than $60K/year, and you get accepted, you get to go for free.

    If you're brilliant and poor, apply to Harvard!
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  7. #21
    Designated Threadkiller LincolnparkRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,791

    Re: NY Times: Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Is it based on the misty-eyed notion that the capitalist got to where he is by the sweat of his brow but the academic nob inherits his spot through some kind of feudal primogeniture?

    It's an honest question. Outside of outliers like Ken Lay and Jeffrey Skilling, Americans seem fine and dandy having their backs flayed in corporate class rigidity, but they get snipey when they smell academic bluebloodism. Why?
    I think that first part is the answer right there. Hard work can get you an even playing field $$ wise but most people get upset when they can't even get into the stadium much less touch the field when it comes to colleges.
    Climbing down from the bridge, but keeping the torch lit until Dusty's fate is settled

  8. #22
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    5,350

    Re: NY Times: Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard

    I knew this guy who was lights out brilliant, could read a page by looking at it, finished high school in 10th grade and who never seemed to try at all to excel academically.

    Interestingly, he was not admitted to Harvard as an undergrad. Then after going getting his BA at a less distinguished institution, he went to graduate school at Cambridge. He had gone into a fairly esoteric field related to linguistics and Gaelic languages or some such thing. Frankly, I never knew what the hell he was studying; it seemed like the head of a pin to me. Anyway, after earning his PhD he was looking for post doc work, and wouldn't you know it, but Harvard came calling. They were trying to recruit him.

    And he turned them down.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  9. #23
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    24,706

    Re: NY Times: Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard

    Quote Originally Posted by LincolnparkRed View Post
    I think that first part is the answer right there. Hard work can get you an even playing field $$ wise but most people get upset when they can't even get into the stadium much less touch the field when it comes to colleges.
    But what I'm saying is that the corporate ceiling is often just as hard as the academic one.

    You, your son, your granddaughter, will never be a robber baron like a Skilling or a Lay. But for whatever reason, people somehow cling to the notion that they could be if they just worked hard enough. But no, you're far more likely to win the PowerBall a couple of times. And if you're black, Mexican, or a woman, it's not just lottery odds, it's impossible.

  10. #24
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    24,706

    Re: NY Times: Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    Wonderful article. Thanks for sharing. I got rejected from an Ivy league school, and was lucky to get into the school I went to. Today (like the author), I couldn't get in with the SAT score from 17 years ago.

    I will say that being in the same city as Harvard, it takes more than "connections" to get in. The school rejects members of royal families and family members of donors who give millions.

    George Bush could NOT get into Yale today with his grades/LSATs from yesteryear.

    Also, in Harvard's defense, if you come from a family that makes less than $60K/year, and you get accepted, you get to go for free.

    If you're brilliant and poor, apply to Harvard!
    Connections tend to be the tiebreaker in most cases for undergraduate admissions; they aren't the essence of admission to schools like Harvard, believe it or not.

    And by the time you reach grad school, connections are even less meaningful a criterion towards admission. You're judged largely on your skills and accomplishments as well as the niche you occupy in your particular field.

    My advice: go to a solid state school, bust your arse, then apply to a bunch of Ivies (and Ivy Lites like UVA, UChicago, Stanford) for grad school. Your job prospects will be nearly as good as if you'd gone to an Ivy for undergrad.

  11. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1,111

    Re: NY Times: Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard

    If you are interested in Harvard's admissions policies - read the New Yorker article written by Malcolm Gladwell (sorry - I don't remember the issue). He cites university sources talking about open anti-semitism in the 1920s, and how Harvard currently is looking for student-athletes, not academic superstars as ideal students. Harvard is only a ideal for those who want to believe there are perfect schools, where all students' dreams come true and life is fair.
    You apply to enough schools, so you can get admitted to at least one, and then you choose your school, and get on with the task of learning what you are paying to learn. You can pay a lot or a little, what matters is how much you learn and how much you retain.

  12. #26
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    6,280

    Re: NY Times: Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    But what I'm saying is that the corporate ceiling is often just as hard as the academic one.

    You, your son, your granddaughter, will never be a robber baron like a Skilling or a Lay. But for whatever reason, people somehow cling to the notion that they could be if they just worked hard enough. But no, you're far more likely to win the PowerBall a couple of times. And if you're black, Mexican, or a woman, it's not just lottery odds, it's impossible.
    I'm pretty sure I won't be telling my kids that it's impossible for them. They will be able to do what they want if they work hard enough. I know "Horatio Alger is dead", I've read that book too, but I don't believe the American Dream died with him.

    There are already people who have done what you just said is impossible. Of course it's not easy, you'd have to be a fool to believe that it is easy, but it's not impossible.
    "three dimes, a one hundred dollar bill and and 87 ones..."

  13. #27
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    13,429

    Re: NY Times: Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    You apply to enough schools,so you can get admitted to at least one, and then you choose your school, and get on with the task of learning what you are paying to learn. You can pay a lot or a little, what matters is how much you learn and how much you retain.
    Speaking of applying to enough schools, I read recently that with online applications and common applications (the same application can be used at multiple schools) becoming commonplace, the average number of schools that students apply to now is around 20! In the era of paper applications, it was around 5 or 6.

    This has the effect of increasing the number of applicants at every school and the larger pool of applicants leads to a lower percentage of accepted applications. Schools are getting more selective because they can be.
    /r/reds

  14. #28
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Land of the Lost
    Posts
    7,227

    Re: NY Times: Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    Speaking of applying to enough schools, I read recently that with online applications and common applications (the same application can be used at multiple schools) becoming commonplace, the average number of schools that students apply to now is around 20! In the era of paper applications, it was around 5 or 6.

    This has the effect of increasing the number of applicants at every school and the larger pool of applicants leads to a lower percentage of accepted applications. Schools are getting more selective because they can be.
    That's a good point. I think its a good thing. I don't have any statistics on it, but I'd be interested to see what online applications have done for the quality of applicants. My feeling and my hope is that it allows schools to attract quality applicants from a broader pool and spreads academic talent to a greater number of schools. I know my school consistently states that the quality of their applicants has increased greatly since they took their applications online. They say the last few classes have been the highest quality and most diverse group of students they've ever had. Of course, maybe they just say that to all the classes.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  15. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,192

    Re: NY Times: Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Connections tend to be the tiebreaker in most cases for undergraduate admissions; they aren't the essence of admission to schools like Harvard, believe it or not.

    And by the time you reach grad school, connections are even less meaningful a criterion towards admission. You're judged largely on your skills and accomplishments as well as the niche you occupy in your particular field.

    My advice: go to a solid state school, bust your arse, then apply to a bunch of Ivies (and Ivy Lites like UVA, UChicago, Stanford) for grad school. Your job prospects will be nearly as good as if you'd gone to an Ivy for undergrad.
    I think that's true but not exactly. Connections are a less meaningful criterion, but also can be an even more so one. That is, if you have a connection with an advisor at a grad school, that will do a lot for you. But if you are applying to a grad school outside of that, I would agree connections are given less, even if any, consideration.

    But your advice is very good and something I wholeheartedly agree with. Going to a good state school and then entering an Ivy is a great way to go. Although that depends also on the discipline. In my field, many of the top 10 schools are state schools, so it does depend on the field.
    Last edited by rdiersin; 05-01-2007 at 09:45 AM.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25