Harden being shopped??

[lollipopcurve]

Harden's injury history is long. I'd be very wary.

[jdoncbus]

You are correct but there are also many other variables. How long did it take him last year to hit a scarifice? I remember it was quite some time and something Jones/Brenneman harped on.

I think the stats speak for themselves in regards to Dunn's low RBI total concerning his high HR totals and I would not trade Dunn for Rich Hardin LOL.

[M2]

And he's also the kind Beane does not love. High $$$.

That's why I figure the Reds would have to be taking Kotsay back. He makes $8M. Plus, Kotsay would fit in with the pitching and defense mantra.

[pedro]

That's not a good argument though, and I think this every time somebody says that, it's been shown that when runners DO get on, he does bad, so it's not a result of people not getting on.

And as far as Dunn OPSing over Casey with runners on, so? When there are ducks on the ponds, I want a guy up who gets the job done most frequently.

come on guys, do we have to rehash the Dunn crap over and over again?

there are a zillion other threads that discuss this issue (most of which refute your argument I might add)

[PuffyPig]

If Harden was healthy, there's no way that oakland would trade him until he gets much closer to FA.

If he's available now, Beane wouldn't want a done for him, he'd want a Bailey and a Bruce. And you'll find you get an injured harden.

Harden is just too risky (and player expensive) for the Reds to get.

[Yachtzee]

That's not a good argument though, and I think this every time somebody says that, it's been shown that when runners DO get on, he does bad, so it's not a result of people not getting on.

And as far as Dunn OPSing over Casey with runners on, so? When there are ducks on the ponds, I want a guy up who gets the job done most frequently.

So you want Dunn batting that situation? With or without runners on, Dunn is good at hitting for power and not making outs, both good traits. Casey, OTOH, has shown a high propensity to ground into double plays. So you would take the guy who avoids outs in that situation to a guy who gives you two outs for the price of one? Good luck with that.

[PuffyPig]

Over the past 3 seasons Berkman also hits .315 with RISP (compared to Dunn's .236) with 65 K's.

Ortiz hits .331 with RISP with 88 K's (including 24 HRs).

Which is about what all 3 hit usually.

So, Dunn, like Berkman and Ortiz, perform about the same with RISP as in other situations.

Dunn hits for a lower average, that's a fact. But it's not like he even does worse once runners are on base.

[klw]

Here's a story on Harden's contract extention. 4.5 mil for 08, Club option at 7 mil for 09
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2028447

[jdoncbus]

I don't want Casey back - I was just using him as an example of someone being able to drive in runs with RISP.

[TC81190]

Why in the world should anyone care about something as bogus as RBI/K ratio? It's worthless. It would tell you Ken Oberkfell was a better RBI man than Mike Schmidt.

As for Casey, Dunn averages more RBIs per 162 games. Also, Dunn's got a higher SLG w/ RISP (though it's close). Casey's fine in that department, but Dunn's slightly better and SLG, not BA, is what gets you RBIs.

I don't know...I'd think getting hits more often would get you more RBI.

[paintmered]

come on guys, do we have to rehash the Dunn crap over and over again?

there are a zillion other threads that discuss this issue (most of which refute your argument I might add)

Yes, let's get this thread back on topic.

[blumj]

Harden isn't going anywhere.

Beane probably called Epstein to chat, and Harden's name came up. Some reporter took that and ran with it.

Ha, this is just how Beane informs the Yankees that he's open for business, he makes sure a reporter finds out he talked to the Red Sox.

[TC81190]

So you want Dunn batting that situation? With or without runners on, Dunn is good at hitting for power and not making outs, both good traits. Casey, OTOH, has shown a high propensity to ground into double plays. So you would take the guy who avoids outs in that situation to a guy who gives you two outs for the price of one? Good luck with that.

I'd take Casey, because while he does ground into a few DPs, he gets hits much more frequently, which is what drives runs in.

[BRM]

That's why I figure the Reds would have to be taking Kotsay back. He makes $8M. Plus, Kotsay would fit in with the pitching and defense mantra.

The 2007 salaries would essentially wash in that deal. Dunn's 2008 option is voided if traded IIRC. Kotsay also has a limited no trade clause this year and next so he'd have to approve the deal.

[TC81190]

And for Harden I'd offer:

Dunn, Medlock (Wayne won't ever use him)

for

Harden, Kotsay