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Thread: Expectations, attitude, Narron, Milton and RZ...

  1. #1
    Reds 5:11 coachw513's Avatar
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    Expectations, attitude, Narron, Milton and RZ...

    The day after one of "those" losses is always an interesting day to check out the ole temperature around here...today is certainly no different...

    1. The greatest strength of Jerry Narron is also what is lacking here in RZ...an appreciation that a baseball season is a marathon, it's not a sprint...I value his poise when watching the right man for the job (based on our roster) melts down and gives up a game that his team had fought hard to take control of (and I doubt he likes it any more than any of us do!)...I value the fact his patience is showing with men like EE, Phillips and Ross allowing them to fight their way out of the season-opening funks they were in...I value the fact he establishes roles for men and sometimes they fail, indicating we must make a change (Cormier and eventually I believe, Stanton and Milton)...I value the fact he's handled Griffey with aplomb, Hamilton with care

    2. On the other hand, I'm convinced the greatest weakness of Narron also unfortunately parallels the greatest weakness of our club...IMHO, Narron struggles to "intuitively" know how to handle his bullpen...I don't have as much issue with the slotting of guys...I think it's naiive to think that Coutlangus, Salmon, Burton or god help us Metlock, etc would be able to immediately step into HIGH-STRESS situations and succeed...so based on our personnel to date (yes, maybe that's a WK issue) I think we tend to have our bullpen guys in the appropriate positions (LOOGY, long, short, closer, etc)...but for whatever reason, Narron's instincts (leave him in, take him out, 1 more batter, etc) don't seem to work...is that random luck???...a sign of lacking a certain skill???...I don't know...

    3. But can we stop the funeral dirge for Narron and at least appreciate the following: did he plan on Saarloos being unable to throw strikes a week or so ago against the 'Stros (a guy who's had pretty good control)???...did he plan on Coffey drilling guys during his meltdowns???...did he plan on Stanton being unable to retire a lefthanded batter???>...is Narron a better manager if the bullpen personnel is better???...is the bullpen better if there is a new manager???

    4. Releasing Milton/revamping the bullpen: Moves that smell of panic and over-emotion UNLESS the same feelings of self-prophesy that follow those guys around here at RZ are beginning to occur in the lockerroom...is there an emotional dread if you are a Red and you know Milton's turn to pitch is today???...or if you know the 8th inning's here and we've got to turn to the likes of Santos, Stanton, Weathers, Coffey to hold a 1 run lead and you feel less confident???...if that IS the case, than we have a problem and WK needs to make the type of dramatic changes many here would all be thrilled about (until the next guy fails for the 1st time)...

    5. Finally, the mood here is at DEFCOM 5 already...losses as created late by bullpen meltdowns get magnified on boards like this and creates near-zealot reactions...guys we are who we are...a franchise trying to shake off being a loser, trying to create a different mindset...we don't know how to win yet and that is a CULTURE as much as it is a talent pool...I personally believe this is our best overall team since '99-'00 and that we are CLEARLY, ALBEIT SLOWLY moving in the right direction...in that vain, do we need to change managers, etc???...personally, I don't think so but I understand the frustration of some who believe that Narron maybe isn't the WINNER needed to re-shape the face of the franchise...as for last night, Milton DID NOT get blasted, he got dinked to death early (yes, it's a disturbing trend that he struggles in the 1st inning)...Griffey didn't hit into the inevitable DP, he hit a rocket right at the guy...

    A suggestion for those who simply cannot handle the vitriolic nature of the gamethreads...I've followed CTrent's blog during a couple of games and it's an interesting change of pace...not necessarily pitch by pitch obviously, but you follow along and the mood is a bit more cheery...anyone who really thinks this passionate, ill-spirited, depressed group of RZ'ers can possibly avoid going through a game without simply firing hate-volleys 1-after-the next at any and all players is fooling themselves...heck, many of us aren't happy when we win because there's always something

    By the way, posting after these type losses is very theraputic

    Maybe we should let Stanton write a blog today
    Last edited by coachw513; 05-04-2007 at 10:09 AM. Reason: my computer freaked out...finishing thread


    You cannot defeat an ignorant man in an argument!
    -William Gibbs McAdoo

    Though many of us here are sure trying

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  3. #2
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Expectations, attitude, Narron, Milton and RZ...

    Quote Originally Posted by coachw513 View Post
    1. The greatest strength of Jerry Narron is also what is lacking here in RZ...an appreciation that a baseball season is a marathon, it's not a sprint...I value his poise when watching the right man for the job (based on our roster) melts down and gives up a game that his team had fought hard to take control of (and I doubt he likes it any more than any of us do!)...I value the fact his patience is showing with men like EE, Phillips and Ross allowing them to fight their way out of the season-opening funks they were in...I value the fact he establishes roles for men and sometimes they fail, indicating we must make a change (Cormier and eventually I believe, Stanton and Milton)...I value the fact he's handled Griffey with aplomb, Hamilton with care
    Generally, I agree, especially how he's handled Griffey, but he showed no patience when benching EE and showed poor leadership by yelling he would not allow people to loaf while ignoring other loafing. He's very inconsistent.

    2. On the other hand, I'm convinced the greatest weakness of Narron also unfortunately parallels the greatest weakness of our club...IMHO, Narron struggles to "intuitively" know how to handle his bullpen...I don't have as much issue with the slotting of guys...I think it's naiive to think that Coutlangus, Salmon, Burton or god help us Metlock, etc would be able to immediately step into HIGH-STRESS situations and succeed...so based on our personnel to date (yes, maybe that's a WK issue) I think we tend to have our bullpen guys in the appropriate positions (LOOGY, long, short, closer, etc)...but for whatever reason, Narron's instincts (leave him in, take him out, 1 more batter, etc) don't seem to work...is that random luck???...a sign of lacking a certain skill???...I don't know...
    Narron, of couse, can't predict how a certain pitcher will pitch, but it should be obvious when a pitcher doesn't have it--a trait he doesn't have.

    3. But can we stop the funeral dirge for Narron and at least appreciate the following: did he plan on Saarloos being unable to throw strikes a week or so ago against the 'Stros (a guy who's had pretty good control)???...did he plan on Coffey drilling guys during his meltdowns???...did he plan on Stanton being unable to retire a lefthanded batter???>...is Narron a better manager if the bullpen personnel is better???...is the bullpen better if there is a new manager???
    No. But better utilization is the key here. There is where I have a prolem, not that it would help much, realistically.

    4. Releasing Milton/revamping the bullpen: Moves that smell of panic and over-emotion UNLESS the same feelings of self-prophesy that follow those guys around here at RZ are beginning to occur in the lockerroom...is there an emotional dread if you are a Red and you know Milton's turn to pitch is today???...or if you know the 8th inning's here and we've got to turn to the likes of Santos, Stanton, Weathers, Coffey to hold a 1 run lead and you feel less confident???...if that IS the case, than we have a problem and WK needs to make the type of dramatic changes many here would all be thrilled about (until the next guy fails for the 1st time)...
    I'm sure there is some over-reaction, but after playing with this bullpen for two years, you'd think there would be a solution. that's why Krivsky and narron are hired--to find a solution. Milton will not be DFA'd for one thing. You may do that witha $2 million contract, but not one the magnaturde of Milton's contract.

    5. Finally, the mood here is at DEFCOM 5 already...losses as created late by bullpen meltdowns get magnified on boards like this and creates near-zealot reactions...guys we are who we are...a franchise trying to shake off being a loser, trying to create a different mindset...we don't know how to win yet and that is a CULTURE as much as it is a talent pool...I personally believe this is our best overall team since '99-'00 and that we are CLEARLY, ALBEIT SLOWLY moving in the right direction...in that vain, do we need to change managers, etc???...personally, I don't think so but I understand the frustration of some who believe that Narron maybe isn't the WINNER needed to re-shape the face of the franchise...as for last night, Milton DID NOT get blasted, he got dinked to death early (yes, it's a disturbing trend that he struggles in the 1st inning)...Griffey didn't hit into the inevitable DP, he hit a rocket right at the guy...
    Good points. But you have to admit, the winning culture comes from the top and so far we don't have a winning manager. BCast has the pedigree and Krivsky comes from a winning atmosphere. Why do they not realize what is needed to get this club going? And I'll go on record here and now. Replacing Narron with a clone will not do. If so, we might as well keep him.

    A suggestion for those who simply cannot handle the vitriolic nature of the gamethreads...I've followed CTrent's blog during a couple of games and it's an interesting change of pace...not necessarily pitch by pitch obviously, but you follow along and the mood is a bit more cheery...anyone who really thinks this passionate, ill-spirited, depressed group of RZ'ers can possibly avoid going through a game without simply firing hate-volleys 1-after-the next at any and all players is fooling themselves...heck, many of us aren't happy when we win because there's always something

    By the way, posting after these type losses is very theraputic

    Maybe we should let Stanton write a blog today
    Great post. Bravo.
    www.ris-news.com
    "You only have to bat a thousand in two things; flying and heart transplants. Everything else you can go 4-for-5."
    -Beano Cook


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