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Thread: Reds Vs. Rockies 5-4-07

  1. #706
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Vs. Rockies 5-4-07

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    The Jerkstore called . . . .

    Wow, that's a fever. Have some Cowbell.



    Seriously, get some rest and feel better.
    Thanks, the cowbell helped
    Go Gators!

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  3. #707
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    Re: Reds Vs. Rockies 5-4-07

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    the point is, you don't have to be. The objective data was their if you wanted to go look at it. The Reds chose to ignore it at their own risk and paid several million dollars and a roster spot for the privilege.

    teams like SD and Chicago(AL) have been able to acquire bullpen power arms while giving up very little or nothing. WK has given far more to this point almost entirely without any success. You can spin all the other stuff any way you but the prior statement is a fact.
    The result of that trade cannot be stated as fact until it can be seen in a proper perspective. That trade was to improve the club last year (and that didn't happen) but to write it off after that without considering what might yet happen is wrong -- and that is a fact!!!

    I'm not going to declare that this has been a good or bad summer based upon the weather up to Memorial Day.

    Until we have a clearer perspective on Bray, Majewski and even daryl Thompson can we state for a fact that this was a bad trade. Also this -- or any trade for that matter cannot be seen in a vacuum. The overall improvement of thois roster is really undeniable. Hamilton and AGonz are preferable and cheaper than Kearns and Lopez (from what most can readily see) -- offensively, defensively, economically, leadership, chemitry-wise -- really by any and all measurement.

    That is a fact.

  4. #708
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    Re: Reds Vs. Rockies 5-4-07

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    It's an interesting approach....weighing the return of trades by including several free agent/waiver wire/rule 5 pickups in the discussion.... It's not a very compelling argument IHMO...

    I guess being a successful lawyer takes more than just talkin' funny....
    I think what lonnie Wheeler is correctly pointing out is that if you insist upon keeping Kearns and Lopez -- there is far less roster flexibility to improve. Move them and then make other moves that are consistent with your philosophical vision of what Krivsky is wanting to build -- like AGonz at SS and Hamilton in RF -- and the club is undeniably better.

  5. #709
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Vs. Rockies 5-4-07

    Quote Originally Posted by peterose00 View Post
    I think what lonnie Wheeler is correctly pointing out is that if you insist upon keeping Kearns and Lopez -- there is far less roster flexibility to improve. Move them and then make other moves that are consistent with your philosophical vision of what Krivsky is wanting to build -- like AGonz at SS and Hamilton in RF -- and the club is undeniably better.
    So, Lonnie, if WK just outright cut both Lopez and Kearns, you would believe it would have been a good move? Because the money would have been saved and there would have been roster flexibility?

  6. #710
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Vs. Rockies 5-4-07

    Quote Originally Posted by peterose00 View Post
    I think what lonnie Wheeler is correctly pointing out is that if you insist upon keeping Kearns and Lopez -- there is far less roster flexibility to improve. Move them and then make other moves that are consistent with your philosophical vision of what Krivsky is wanting to build -- like AGonz at SS and Hamilton in RF -- and the club is undeniably better.
    Upgrading short by getting rid of Lopez was nobrainer, everything else in the argument is pure speculation most of which isn't very compelling. BTW, Kearns fits absolutely perfectly into Krivsky's *vision*. Kearns' presence wouldn't have prevented Hamilton from being here and it's not a forgone conclusion that hamilton is an upgrade over Kearns this season. In fact it could be argued that getting rid of Kearns allowed Griffey to stay in the outfield where he clearly doesn't belong.

    It's crazy talk I know but I'm thinking this team could really use another right-handed bat right now....

    Anyway, this is a game thread isn't it?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  7. #711
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Vs. Rockies 5-4-07

    Quote Originally Posted by peterose00 View Post
    That is a fact.
    Except that it's not. You're arguing that it was an either or situation. There is absolutely no reason that Kearns had to be moved for the other move's Wheeler is talking about to occur.

    And it is possible to evaluate the trade now. Two starting position players for about 40 IP is pretty much lunacy unless those 40 IP are extremely lights out high leverage stuff. Majewski will be lucky to ever be anything more than a 5th-6th inning fodder guy. Bray's projected ceiling isn't terribly high but he could at least be useful but we're not talking shutdown closer. The low-ball starter, well who knows.....that one could take years to answer. Krivsky doesn't get credit for managing to upgrade shortstop to well below average versus league worst because the Reds had better shortstops than Clayton in their organisation.

    I could care less about Lopez. There was no reason for Kearns though.
    Last edited by jojo; 05-05-2007 at 04:01 PM.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  8. #712
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Vs. Rockies 5-4-07

    Yay bullpen!


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