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Thread: Ervin Santana for EE (revisited)

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    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Ervin Santana for EE (revisited)

    Shopping for a hitter starts early
    By Mike DiGiovanna, Times Staff Writer
    May 6, 2007

    The July 31 non-waiver trading deadline is 86 days away, but Angels General Manager Bill Stoneman is already perusing the market for an early-bird special.

    A hip injury that will sideline Garret Anderson for at least another month and a hand injury that could sideline Howie Kendrick for another three weeks — combined with Shea Hillenbrand's struggles — have thrust the Angels into their annual search-for-a-bat mode two months earlier than usual.

    Among the players the Angels are believed to be interested in are Colorado third baseman Garrett Atkins and outfielders Brad Hawpe and Jeff Baker, outfielders Kevin Mench (Milwaukee), Jacque Jones (Chicago Cubs), Pat Burrell (Philadelphia) and Emil Brown (Kansas City), and third basemen Morgan Ensberg (Houston) and Edwin Encarnacion (Cincinnati).

    Boosting their leverage in trade talks is a surplus of starting pitchers — with the return of Bartolo Colon and Jered Weaver and strong performances from Joe Saunders and Dustin Moseley, the Angels' rotation goes seven deep.

    Right-hander Ervin Santana, who was nearly traded for Baltimore shortstop Miguel Tejada last summer, could be the Angels' best bargaining chip, a pitcher who, when packaged with another good player, could bring a hitter the caliber of Atkins (.329, 29 home runs, 120 runs batted in last season).

    Or, the Angels could use Saunders or Moseley in a deal for a hitter of lesser ability, but one who could still boost the offense.

    "We're always looking," Stoneman said. "The depth and health of our rotation puts us in a better position. It's not like we couldn't do something right now if we get the opportunity."

    Ideally, the Angels would like to acquire a player who could fill in for Anderson now and perhaps move to designated hitter in June if Hillenbrand continues to struggle. They can be flexible in their pursuit of a hitter because third baseman Chone Figgins could move to left field, if necessary.

    "If an opportunity exists to do something, we'll do it — you're always looking to get better," Stoneman said. "But you also have to look at the long term. You don't want to destroy the long term for the sake of the short term."
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

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    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Ervin Santana for EE (revisited)

    Does EE bring Santana? I don't think he does.

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    Re: Ervin Santana for EE (revisited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball View Post
    Shopping for a hitter starts early
    By Mike DiGiovanna, Times Staff Writer
    May 6, 2007

    The July 31 non-waiver trading deadline is 86 days away, but Angels General Manager Bill Stoneman is already perusing the market for an early-bird special.

    A hip injury that will sideline Garret Anderson for at least another month and a hand injury that could sideline Howie Kendrick for another three weeks ó combined with Shea Hillenbrand's struggles ó have thrust the Angels into their annual search-for-a-bat mode two months earlier than usual.

    Among the players the Angels are believed to be interested in are Colorado third baseman Garrett Atkins and outfielders Brad Hawpe and Jeff Baker, outfielders Kevin Mench (Milwaukee), Jacque Jones (Chicago Cubs), Pat Burrell (Philadelphia) and Emil Brown (Kansas City), and third basemen Morgan Ensberg (Houston) and Edwin Encarnacion (Cincinnati).

    Boosting their leverage in trade talks is a surplus of starting pitchers ó with the return of Bartolo Colon and Jered Weaver and strong performances from Joe Saunders and Dustin Moseley, the Angels' rotation goes seven deep.

    Right-hander Ervin Santana, who was nearly traded for Baltimore shortstop Miguel Tejada last summer, could be the Angels' best bargaining chip, a pitcher who, when packaged with another good player, could bring a hitter the caliber of Atkins (.329, 29 home runs, 120 runs batted in last season).

    Or, the Angels could use Saunders or Moseley in a deal for a hitter of lesser ability, but one who could still boost the offense.

    "We're always looking," Stoneman said. "The depth and health of our rotation puts us in a better position. It's not like we couldn't do something right now if we get the opportunity."

    Ideally, the Angels would like to acquire a player who could fill in for Anderson now and perhaps move to designated hitter in June if Hillenbrand continues to struggle. They can be flexible in their pursuit of a hitter because third baseman Chone Figgins could move to left field, if necessary.

    "If an opportunity exists to do something, we'll do it ó you're always looking to get better," Stoneman said. "But you also have to look at the long term. You don't want to destroy the long term for the sake of the short term."

    I think E.Santana is overrated but slightly above league average at near league minimum is valuable. EE projects to be basically a league average thirdbase bat with lingering doubts about his defense.

    I think the Angels are probably hoping for more of an impact bat in return for Santana especially in the shortterm since they have a couple bats they probably would prefer over EE at third in the longterm (i.e. like a Brandon Wood).
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Ervin Santana for EE (revisited)

    Disagree with your assessment of Edwin, jojo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: Ervin Santana for EE (revisited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Does EE bring Santana? I don't think he does.
    That's what I'm thinking. Edwin would need to get that .231 average up in a hurry for Santana to even be a possibility.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: Ervin Santana for EE (revisited)

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Disagree with your assessment of Edwin, jojo.
    what do you think is EE's ceiling?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Ervin Santana for EE (revisited)

    I think he can win a gold glove at third base, hit .290 with 30-35 homers a year. He's still incredibly young and has a lot of maturing both physically and mentally left to do at a tough position to master.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Ervin Santana for EE (revisited)

    His range is absolutely sick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: Ervin Santana for EE (revisited)

    I wouldn't trade EE for Santana.

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    Re: Ervin Santana for EE (revisited)

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    I think he can win a gold glove at third base, hit .290 with 30-35 homers a year. He's still incredibly young and has a lot of maturing both physically and mentally left to do at a tough position to master.
    You're considerably more optimistic about him than I am. He has already reached the peak age for defense. He certainly could still improve but gold glove calibre seems like stretch IMHO. Concerning his bat, his VORP is projected to hover somewhere in the mid 20's over the next five years. I haven't seen a reason to think that Pecota (or any of the 5 projection systems available who all seem to think similarly of him) has misjudged him yet.

    I like EE and think he should be the Reds thirdbaseman for several years. Somewhere around league average for cheap is a good thing. I just don't think he'll grow to be anything like the semblance of Mike Schmidt that GG+35 hrs suggests....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Ervin Santana for EE (revisited)

    Now I do that trade. Not staight up.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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    Re: Ervin Santana for EE (revisited)

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    I think he can win a gold glove at third base, hit .290 with 30-35 homers a year. He's still incredibly young and has a lot of maturing both physically and mentally left to do at a tough position to master.
    Word, I don't care what PECOTA says about peaking or whatever nonsense, Edwin's glove will improve, he's only in his 2nd full year, as will his quick bat.
    I hope it's never sunny in Philly again.

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    Re: Ervin Santana for EE (revisited)

    Question is Santana pitches great at home,gets shelled on the road.Which would he be here versus on the road?

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    Re: Ervin Santana for EE (revisited)

    Quote Originally Posted by TC81190 View Post
    Word, I don't care what PECOTA says about peaking or whatever nonsense, Edwin's glove will improve, he's only in his 2nd full year, as will his quick bat.
    With all do respect, I've never understood this attitude. I do understand not liking sabermetrics or not trusting projection systems per se. There are alot of ways to look at a problem.

    I don't understand an argument that in essence says, "I don't trust a projection system because it doesn't say what I want to hear but I will argue my opinion using the same concepts the model I just rejected utilizes anyway..."
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Ervin Santana for EE (revisited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jr's Boy View Post
    Question is Santana pitches great at home,gets shelled on the road.Which would he be here versus on the road?
    6.66 lifetime ERA on the road.

    Ouch.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.


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