BP and EE = Non-intelligent baseball

[TexasRed]

I am not a stat guy (sorry). I don't know where I'd even find the facts on this, but my observations of Edwin and Brandon makes me think these guys are not intelligent baseball players...... Brantly just commented on EE swinging at the first pitch of his first at bat (with runners on) which resulted in a pop up . It seems like I see these two do this kind of thing with regularity (not to mention the bone headed defense they seem to display with regularity). You have to think that the coaches talk to these guys about situational hitting..... Does it bounce off?!? I know that if I don't do what my bosses want at my work, I'm going to be out a job soon..... Could this be why we don't have a certain shorstop playing in Cincy anymore???

I hope this doesn't sound like a rant; it's not intended that way. These guy's are two of my favorites and I hope they do well. It's just when I compare them with the intelligence Josh Hamilton seems to play with (and he's in his first year) I am perplexed.

[membengal]

Is everything you think triggered by Jeff Brantley?

[paintmered]

Is everything you think triggered by Jeff Brantley?

Or Tracy Jones?

[RichRed]

Pitches per plate appearance:

Edwin: 3.67
Hamilton: 3.66

[Highlifeman21]

BP and EE are what they are.

They lack plate patience/discipline.

Thinking they might be able to change is the logical fallacy.

[Mario-Rijo]

It's a valid question IMO. I will say BP seems to be a rather sharp kid, his problem at the plate (his defense is far from boneheaded) isn't a result of unintelligence it's the fact that he is young and enamored with the HR ball.

EE is a pretty instinctual guy IMHO, problem is his youth. He has yet to learn to lay off certain pitches like that slider down and away. EE will come around soon, BP needs a reality check however. Perhaps he got one today when he had to take a seat and watch the lineup drop 9 runs on the Rockies.

We shall see but I believe these 2 are going to eventually become part of the solution.

[RedEye]

It's a valid question IMO. I will say BP seems to be a rather sharp kid, his problem at the plate (his defense is far from boneheaded) isn't a result of unintelligence it's the fact that he is young and enamored with the HR ball.

EE is a pretty instinctual guy IMHO, problem is his youth. He has yet to learn to lay off certain pitches like that slider down and away. EE will come around soon, BP needs a reality check however. Perhaps he got one today when he had to take a seat and watch the lineup drop 9 runs on the Rockies.

We shall see but I believe these 2 are going to eventually become part of the solution.

Agreed.

I actually don't really like when people use notions like "un-intelligent baseball" because I don't think they really tell us anything substantive. They're the kinds of phrases commentators like Brantley use to cater to the least common denominator. That's fine for the purpose of analyzing a live game I suppose, but they should be greatly qualified and quantified if you're really trying to discuss a player's relative merits over the long haul.

IMO, unless you are speaking about something specific in a player's performance, you run the risk of being needlessly anecdotal and prejudiced against certain players. Need to watch these guys day in, day out, and look at long-term their stats in order to understand their performance.

Anyway, that's what I think.

[redhawkfish]

I think BP and EE's problems are more to do with youth. We have watched poor baseball for the past six years, and are so jaded(sometimes) we have trouble allowing players to struggle through normal "growing pains". They are both very talented with things to work on. Just my two cents!

[Chip R]

I think plate discipline is a valuable tool. Working the count helps a team out and hurts the other team in a lot of ways. That said, when did it become a mortal sin to swing at the first pitch? If I'm a major league hitter and the pitcher throws a BP fastball right down the heart of the plate or hangs a curve or a slider, I'm not going to lay off that pitch for the simple fact that I can hit it. If I pop it up or miss it or line it to the center fielder, it's a shame but I got my pitch to it. Nobody, not Thom or Jeff Brantley or Rob Neyer or Bill James or Billy Beane, is going to complain about a hitter swinging at the first pitch when he hits it safely. It's only when they miss it or make an out that it becomes a complaint. It's true that there are players out there who are going to swing at the first pitch no matter what. If you're Vlad Guerrero, that's OK since he has made a career of swinging - and hitting - anything within the zip code of the plate. If you're Neffi Perez, that's not so good. Taking the first pitch just to take the first pitch isn't necessarily a good idea. If it's out of the strike zone or it's a strike you don't thnk you can handle, that's fine. But if it's a pitch you can handle, why let it go by?

[Redhook]

It's a valid question IMO. I will say BP seems to be a rather sharp kid, his problem at the plate (his defense is far from boneheaded) isn't a result of unintelligence it's the fact that he is young and enamored with the HR ball.

EE is a pretty instinctual guy IMHO, problem is his youth. He has yet to learn to lay off certain pitches like that slider down and away. EE will come around soon, BP needs a reality check however. Perhaps he got one today when he had to take a seat and watch the lineup drop 9 runs on the Rockies.

We shall see but I believe these 2 are going to eventually become part of the solution.

Excellent post.

I don't worry about EE at all. I do, however, worry that management doesn't feel the same way.

BP, on the otherhand, just doesn't seem to get it at the plate. I really believe he could be one of the premier second basemen in the league if he just learned the basics of batting. If he could be taught how to work the count a bit and not act like home run hitter he could be awesome. Until then, we will see many ups and downs from him, unfulfilling his potential.

[kaldaniels]

Pitches per plate appearance:

Edwin: 3.67
Hamilton: 3.66

Face it, you can look the other way if you are producing.

[Always Red]

Hamilton went through a period about a week ago where he was hacking away at every first pith thrown to him; it coincided with his mini-slump. He's settled down and become a little more patient since then.

Sometimes the game plan is to go ahead and swing at the first pitch, if the pitcher has a habit of trying to get ahead on the count right away. Welsh mentioned that the other day; sometimes they're instructed to try to swing away at the first strike, as it might be their best chance.

[George Anderson]

Hamilton went through a period about a week ago where he was hacking away at every first pith thrown to him; it coincided with his mini-slump. He's settled down and become a little more patient since then.

Sometimes the game plan is to go ahead and swing at the first pitch, if the pitcher has a habit of trying to get ahead on the count right away. Welsh mentioned that the other day; sometimes they're instructed to try to swing away at the first strike, as it might be their best chance.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didnt the Reds a few years back have a rule in their minor league system, that players were not allowed to swing at the first pitch, or they would be fined???

[REDREAD]

Every player has his strengths and weaknesses. We just have to accept that BP is never going to be a high OBP guy. He has other strengths. Now Narron should realize what BP is and bat him 6th, not 2nd or 3rd. Let him bat 6th and get RBIs. His lack of OBP doesn't hurt as much when he bats 6th (because Ross and Gonzo should be hitting after him).

[Redsland]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didnt the Reds a few years back have a rule in their minor league system, that players were not allowed to swing at the first pitch, or they would be fined???

Dan O'Brien did institute such a rule.

He's gone, and so is it.