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Thread: Evaluating Narron-is he really the problem or actually part of the solution?

  1. #16
    Member jimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Evaluating Narron-is he really the problem or actually part of the solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    That is another option. But I'd hope that (1) the bench coaches would be better than that (2) Jerry would learn to sift through the good and bad advice a little better.
    Or (3) maybe posters on RedsZone who say Narron is a horrible bullpen coach are wrong.

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  3. #17
    Member jimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Evaluating Narron-is he really the problem or actually part of the solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc D View Post
    I don't expect anything from Narron but his team to play hard, smart baseball. IMO, they do not.
    But you can only coach and preach players on those things so much, it's ultimately the responsiblity of the players to execute. There's a good chance that no manager could get this group of players to play smarter baseball.

    Now I will agree that some of the problems this team has may come from a lack of focus, which is something that the manager can be ultimately responsible for. Every manager needs to be able to keep his players focused on the field.

  4. #18
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Evaluating Narron-is he really the problem or actually part of the solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Or (3) maybe posters on RedsZone who say Narron is a horrible bullpen coach are wrong.
    That could very well be, since this Reds bullpen, bad as it is, is the best one he's had to work with in his short time here.

    When you don't have much to choose from, it's hard to make a good selection.

  5. #19
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Evaluating Narron-is he really the problem or actually part of the solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord View Post
    i've said it before, i'll say it again:

    Narron's GREAT at managing the club house and personalities.

    Narron's weird in his EdE persecution, but until the last two weeks, EdE hasn't done much to dissuade this.

    Narron is a decent offensive game manager.

    Narron is a HORRIBLE bullpen manager.
    I think this is a fair, accurate assessment except I don't have as dim a view of how he handles the pen with in game decisions relative o most managers.

    I'd add this though, in general, I think he suffers from the same tendency as most managers-he overvalues veteran presence. This has hurt him with the pen IMHO. I'm sure Krivsky gets Narron's opinion when building the pen and when managing the Louisville shuttle.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #20
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Evaluating Narron-is he really the problem or actually part of the solution?

    My general rule of thumb on managers or coaches at the pro level is that at least 80% of them are Just Guys. Not saying they're totally interchangeable -- they have different areas of strength and weakness -- but by and large, they'll bring in a club at about the record you'd expect given the talent on hand and the circumstances beyond their control. Only a few guys are good enough to consistently raise their teams' level of play. (There are a lot more guys who can move the needle in the negative direction, but they usually don't get jobs, or keep them for long.)

    I think Narron falls within that category. He's neither the problem nor the solution. That will make it seem unfair if he gets fired, but it also means he'd be no huge loss. That's how it goes for Just Guys.
    Not all who wander are lost

  7. #21
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    Re: Evaluating Narron-is he really the problem or actually part of the solution?

    I doubt Narron will continue to outperform pythag projections, given the way this year is headed.

    One area in which Narron has excelled is pinch hitting, and not many give him credit for it. The Reds PHers are currently OPSing .916, and this year is not the exception. In 2006, they OPSed .816, which was (by far) the best in the league, despite a so-so bench.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/Statis...getype=batting

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/...87&season=2006

    His defensive replacements are sensible, so I think he knows how and when to use the bench effectively.

    He has done a good job of inspiring faith in several members of the team. Narron has gotten great/outstanding performances out of Hamilton (so far), Phillips, Arroyo, Ross, Lohse, etc.

    I see lots of reasons to flame Narron about how he manages pitchers:

    1.) The Reds have had multiple 120-pitch blown quality starts because he leaves the starters in too long.

    2.) Some days his bullpen overmanagement makes LaRussa look like Cito Gaston, in comparison. Coffey and Stanton are #1 and #5 in terms of appearances, despite a great rotation. This bullpen can't continue to churn at that rate.

    3.) He has had at least some interesting material to work with in the bullpen the last few years, and notta one has come up roses.
    Last edited by D-Man; 05-08-2007 at 01:38 PM.


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