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Thread: Is it the Bullpen or Catching?

  1. #16
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    Re: Is it the Bullpen or Catching?

    Would not the advanced scouting and gameplan imployed by the catchers be the same or very similar that the starters are using to get out the same batters? And the starters seem to be doing just fine and we don't exactly have a HOF starting 5 thus far.

    I just think the BP guys have issues with talent and pitch location. Tons of balls that are wild in the strike zone as well as getting behind in the count.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Is it the Bullpen or Catching?

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark View Post
    Don't think for a second that Houston's staff did not take notice of that. Predicatability. It was a changeup. Might as well have been on a rope too.

    What happened to Coffey's split. If pitchers are shaking off Breaking balls and splits 8 out of 10 times it means their elbow is sore. Not good.
    I wonder if that could have anything to do with a certian pitcher being WAY overused?
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  4. #18
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    Re: Is it the Bullpen or Catching?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunner44 View Post
    I wonder if that could have anything to do with a certian pitcher being WAY overused?
    Fact of the matter is he is not getting people out. He is relying on a fastball that stays at the same speed the entire at bat. Right now he is not an effective pitcher and as it looks has a ways to go in order to become an effective pitcher. Coffey could have good enough stuff to be a good setup man or a closer he just needs to refine his game and I think AAA should be the place. The reds starters have pitched too good so far this year to have the bullpen lose too many games. Its time for a change and the reds need to do soemthing drastic right now.

  5. #19
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Is it the Bullpen or Catching?

    It could be the bullpen catching?
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  6. #20
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    Re: Is it the Bullpen or Catching?

    Quote Originally Posted by JLB5 View Post
    It was a change, Javy wiggled 4 fingers. Coffey had thrown all fastballs to that point in his outing. Javy had called for one breaking pitch earlier in the Scott at bat and Coffey shook him off. Javy called for the change, but Coffey through it straight down the middle. Just to note, Welsh mentioned Coffey had success getting outs against Houston with the change last week.
    When the centerfield camera showed Javy wiggling the changeup signal, I thought it was a great call -- something the hitter had not seen in that AB, even though it is probably Coffey's 3rd or 4th best pitch.

    And if it missed (in the usual down and away spot), then it would have merely been a base on balls. But the execution by Coffey (who wanted to throw a strike) looked to be batting practice location and speed and not enough differential decrease in velocity from a fastball -- I did not see the radar mph on that pitch however. Did any of you?

    Brantley observes that the bullpen guy needs to command two different pitches, but Welsh maintained that if Scott was going to hit one out, Coffey should have forced him hit an outside fastball to the opposite field.

  7. #21
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    Re: Is it the Bullpen or Catching?

    Very simple...it's the bullpen. It's not like Mariano and Hoffman are struggling.

  8. #22
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Is it the Bullpen or Catching?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leader View Post
    It could be the bullpen catching?
    You know...the guy is responsible for getting the pitchers ready.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  9. #23
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    Re: Is it the Bullpen or Catching?

    I never see anybody mention Hume. He's been around longer than JN an WK and it has been the same old stuff year after year. He does not seem to have the capacity to help his guys work through the mental issues but they sure seem to develop them on his watch.

  10. #24
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    Re: Is it the Bullpen or Catching?

    Quote Originally Posted by JLB5 View Post
    I never see anybody mention Hume. He's been around longer than JN an WK and it has been the same old stuff year after year. He does not seem to have the capacity to help his guys work through the mental issues but they sure seem to develop them on his watch.
    Hummer's work is well documented. For several years running he had some of the best bullpens in the biz. Several of his pitchers, (Williamson, Gravy, Sullivan) shouted to the heavens praise and glory for Tom. I think he did a pretty good job as Pitching Coach last year too. If your pitchers are pitching scared or just do not have the "stuff".... what can you do? I'm sure if you asked Tom he would accept responsibility. Whatever the problem is it's not one person or one aspect of the game that can claim the blame. My post was to bring to life the myriad of problems that plague the Reds bullpen. In my humble opinion anyway.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  11. #25
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Re: Is it the Bullpen or Catching?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strikes Out Looking View Post
    Don't the Reds have someone breaking this down for the team?
    Perhaps you're thinking of the latest addition to the coaching staff and Josh Hamilton BFF, Johnny Narron: Reds Video and Administrative Coach.
    Makes all the routine posts.

  12. #26
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    Re: Is it the Bullpen or Catching?

    TC, great post and thread...

    It's no more Hume's fault as it is Narron's...

    Coffey's confidence is totally gone...where is the guy that blew away the Cards last year in that based loaded, none out situation in the Harang 1-0 win over Carpenter???...its amazing the role the mind plays in professional sports...it's all about confidence...quite honestly, I think it's the same thing with Stanton...

    The advance scout discussion is incredibly interesting...I would be intrigued to watch the progession of info about a team/hitter from scout to coaching staff to catcher to pitcher to performance...those are the kinds of things I'd love to be a fly on the wall for...

    Once again, great post...


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  13. #27
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    Re: Is it the Bullpen or Catching?

    Quote Originally Posted by coachw513 View Post
    TC, great post and thread...

    It's no more Hume's fault as it is Narron's...

    Coffey's confidence is totally gone...where is the guy that blew away the Cards last year in that based loaded, none out situation in the Harang 1-0 win over Carpenter???...its amazing the role the mind plays in professional sports...it's all about confidence...quite honestly, I think it's the same thing with Stanton...

    The advance scout discussion is incredibly interesting...I would be intrigued to watch the progession of info about a team/hitter from scout to coaching staff to catcher to pitcher to performance...those are the kinds of things I'd love to be a fly on the wall for...

    Once again, great post...
    Ask Jerry if you can sit in on the meeting. Beginning of every series about 3 hours before game time. Pitchers and Catchers meeting. Pole, Hume, Narron, all pitchers and Catchers attend. Mackanin will be on the phone. That would be a great post.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  14. #28
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    Re: Is it the Bullpen or Catching?

    Quote Originally Posted by coachw513 View Post
    The advance scout discussion is incredibly interesting...I would be intrigued to watch the progession of info about a team/hitter from scout to coaching staff to catcher to pitcher to performance...those are the kinds of things I'd love to be a fly on the wall for...
    "Mr. Telephone Man,
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    I get a 'click' every time."

    I think this is a brilliant discussion. Advance scouting with the Reds has probably suffered the same problem as the rest of the scouting department under the Reds' past regimes. Why pay scouts when all they do is sit around and watch baseball games, right?

    I think scouting your own team is a very cool thing to do. I like the idea of having someone watch the team approaching it from an opponent's perspective. It might help identify issues and adapt accordingly.
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  15. #29
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    Re: Is it the Bullpen or Catching?

    So let's take this thread in a different direction:

    Oswalt is now 19-1 against the Reds. Have he and his catchers been that good at staying out of patterns and setting up hitters game after game after game over the years? Or are there tendencies / patterns that are eluding the Reds' coaches/scouts/hitters? Or is his stuff so good that he could tell the hitters what's coming ahead of time and still make 'em look foolish?

  16. #30
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    Re: Is it the Bullpen or Catching?

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark View Post
    3) The Reds advance staff (Pete Mackanin) is not able to pinpoint an accurate game plan to attack opposing hitters, therefore, leaving the Reds pitchers to fend for themselves. Pete cost the Reds at least 6-8 Wins last year in my humble estimation. Probably more. I'm just being nice.

    I've been saying this for 5 years running now - the Reds advance scouts appear to be worthless. When the same guys kill you over and over again maybe its time to change your pattern, to use other teams MO's - yet the Berkman's, Hall's, etc of the world drill us year after year.

    Some of that has to do with pitchers executing, I'm sure. But still, when every pitcer you have gets rocked by the same guys constantly and when other teams mediocre pitchers get those guys out with regularity, a good deal has to fall on advance scouting reports, IMO.
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