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Thread: What's the deal with Joey Votto?

  1. #61
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: What's the deal with Joey Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Naroon would end hitting some of them 7th to slipt up the lefties.

    You really think that moron is going to be running this team in 2 years? I would be surprised if he makes it 2 more months, much less 2 more years.

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  3. #62
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    Re: What's the deal with Joey Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You really think that moron is going to be running this team in 2 years? I would be surprised if he makes it 2 more months, much less 2 more years.
    I sure hope not, but him and Wayne "are on the same page".
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    Re: What's the deal with Joey Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Naroon would end hitting some of them 7th to slipt up the lefties.

    1. Freel
    2. Hamilton
    3. Castro
    4. Bruce
    5. Gonzalez
    6. Dunn
    7. Ross
    8. Votto
    9. Milton (Hopefully he'll be resigned)

  5. #64
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    Re: What's the deal with Joey Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I sure hope not, but him and Wayne "are on the same page".
    You are also now assuming Wayne will still be on the job in 2 years, and at the rate things are going, I am not so sure thats the case.

  6. #65
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    Re: What's the deal with Joey Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You are also now assuming Wayne will still be on the job in 2 years, and at the rate things are going, I am not so sure thats the case.
    Now that's a good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
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    Re: What's the deal with Joey Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    IMO, there is no way Griffey, Dunn, Bruce, Votto, and Hamilton will be on the same team. Either Griffey will be traded or his contract will run out and he will retire or move on to DH in the American League. I happen to believe Dunn will be re-signed and become the Reds leftfielder for a long time, with Hamilton flanking him in center and Jay Bruce in right. Votto should be the 1B and EdE across the diamond at 3B. Phillips, IMO, will be the SS after Gonzo moves on and Valaika will settle in as the 2B. Now we just need to find a good young catcher.

    LF Adam Dunn
    CF Josh Hamilton
    RF Jay Bruce
    3B Edwin Encarnacion
    SS Brandon Phillips
    2B Chris Valaika
    1B Joey Votto
    C ?
    Obviously, every lefty hitter will not be on the team at the same time. But -- other than Encarnacion -- there are only 4 positions for these guys. If the first baseman and all three outfielders are lefty, and your only power righty bat is Mr. Encarnacion, I think you have a lack of balance in the lineup.

    For all the love of these young guys, some of them are best used as trade bait. The only sure thing I see is Bruce.

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    Re: What's the deal with Joey Votto?

    Wasn't there some short-lived experiment a couple years ago where Votto took a few groundballs at 3B? I think somebody felt Votto's arm was strong enough coming out from behind the plate.

    Remember those horrendous Johnny Bench experiments at 3B?
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

  9. #68
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    Re: What's the deal with Joey Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    Wasn't there some short-lived experiment a couple years ago where Votto took a few groundballs at 3B? I think somebody felt Votto's arm was strong enough coming out from behind the plate.

    Remember those horrendous Johnny Bench experiments at 3B?
    I think it was leftfield.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  10. #69
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    Re: What's the deal with Joey Votto?

    I've seen WOY and a few others invoke the name of Tony Perez when talking about EE moving, but I can't imagine that Perez's move involved kicking a similar talent out of the way at 1b. I simply don't know.

    What bothers me about moving Votto to LF, even for a game, is that I don't understand why you complicate his pushing to get to the bigs. By all accounts, he needs plenty of 1b work, so leave him be to get that work. It's not like Votto will be busting through the OF log-jam in Cincy anytime soon. It just seems ill-advised in every respect...

  11. #70
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    Re: What's the deal with Joey Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    I've seen WOY and a few others invoke the name of Tony Perez when talking about EE moving, but I can't imagine that Perez's move involved kicking a similar talent out of the way at 1b. I simply don't know.

    What bothers me about moving Votto to LF, even for a game, is that I don't understand why you complicate his pushing to get to the bigs. By all accounts, he needs plenty of 1b work, so leave him be to get that work. It's not like Votto will be busting through the OF log-jam in Cincy anytime soon. It just seems ill-advised in every respect...

    The Reds had to trade Lee May to make room at 1B for Perez. When they traded May he had just hit 39 home runs(1971). The trade at the time was roundly criticized by many fans. Of course we know that trade turned out to be one of the best trades the Reds ever made.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

  12. #71
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    Re: What's the deal with Joey Votto?

    Thanks. Couldn't remember how that went down. But that all happened at the big league level, no? With May, they had an idea about his ceiling and got value for him. With Votto, do we know what his ceiling is? I don't think we do. I am not for adding an extra piece to block his assent when EE already has a position he is perfectly capable of handling and getting better at.

  13. #72
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    Re: What's the deal with Joey Votto?

    As for why Votto is struggling, he's 23 in AAA. Pitchers have got him off balance and he's not hitting the ball with as much authority as he did last season. That's to be expected. Baseball is not easy, the jump from AA to AAA is a big one and Votto's struggled before.

    It could be another two years before he's ready to be a plus 1B.

    As others have noted, there's a lot of ways to fill the 1B slot, perhaps even Encarnacion. The real question is how good do you expect Votto to be? If you think he's going to be superior, then he's worth the wait.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  14. #73
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    Re: What's the deal with Joey Votto?

    Votto really is no longer struggling at AAA. That doesn't mean he should be brought up or that he won't start struggling again. I think we're probably making way too much out of Votto's playing a game in LF. Louisville's got a surplus of infielders and a shortage of outfielders. Herr, Bellhorn, Snyder, and now EE are all primarily 3B; Votto, Snyder, and J. Gutierrez are 1B. Herr and Bellhorn can play second, but that's about the end of the flexibility unless somebody goes to the outfield. Seems to me the plan is still in order: let Votto continue to get AAA action and see if Edwin is really going to be able to play major league 3B. I hope he can because he's a lot more valuable as a third baseman than as either a first baseman or corner outfield, but it's not clear yet that he can do it.

  15. #74
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: What's the deal with Joey Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    As for why Votto is struggling, he's 23 in AAA. Pitchers have got him off balance and he's not hitting the ball with as much authority as he did last season. That's to be expected. Baseball is not easy, the jump from AA to AAA is a big one and Votto's struggled before.

    It could be another two years before he's ready to be a plus 1B.

    As others have noted, there's a lot of ways to fill the 1B slot, perhaps even Encarnacion. The real question is how good do you expect Votto to be? If you think he's going to be superior, then he's worth the wait.
    M2, no offense, but you are WAY off on this one.

    Joey Votto is actually hitting the ball harder than he did last year, which can be seen by the fact he is hitting 4% more Line Drives than last year. The difference is his BABIP is about 70 points lower than it was last year (but the gap is closing as the season moves on because well, thats what happens when you hit the crap out of the ball but make more outs on line drives than you make hits on line drives for the first 5 weeks of the season). He also just got contacts earlier this week and 'is seeing the ball much better'. Votto is on the verge of blowing up right now and is destroying the ball in May so far to the tune of a .383/.482/.553 line with a 1/1 bb/k ratio.

  16. #75
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    Re: What's the deal with Joey Votto?

    doug, I don't think M2 disagree's. But he is going through some adjustment. Granted, the guy seems to get off to bad Aprils every year, but that may be just adjustment times. If he just is a slow starter, better get a manager that understands the hitter. Narron probably would have bench Votto this year for example(and screwed around with a great May so far).

    Votto is most likely not going to be a plus 1st baseman in 2008. But as a 25 year old in 2009 he may very well be something else. If that is what Krivsky thinks, he better be paving the way for him sometime over the next year.

    But Krivsky's evaluation skills are in question. I worry that he will trade Votto for peanuts and then the guy turns into a superstar


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