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Thread: Livingston to start Sunday

  1. #31
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    Re: Livingston to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredbunter View Post
    Livingston = Michalak = filler
    Even with Dumatrait, you want to make sure he is set up for as much success as possible. No need to rush either Dumatrait or Bailey since it appears that the '07 Reds are not a playoff team....On the other hand, I would be shopping Santos for anyone with a pulse.

    How do you compare Livingston to Michalak? Michalak was the Morgan Shepherd of the Reds....Livingston is atleast a Clint Bowyer type. Won't win many races, but is usually in the the top 10 at the end.

    Brent

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  3. #32
    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: Livingston to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by GSURedsfan View Post
    Michalak was the Morgan Shepherd of the Reds
    Now that's funny! Never expected to see that comparison.

  4. #33
    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: Livingston to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
    Am I correct that Homer's Arb clock doesn't start until next year if he's not up until after June 1st?
    No. Whatever days he spends on the Major League roster go into his arb time, regardless of when he's called up. Also, if he gets sent back down the clock stops. It's late enough in the season now that they likely could call him up for the rest of the year and not have him become arb eligible a year early, though I don't expect it to happen yet.

  5. #34
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Livingston to start Sunday

    Fay doesn't like this decision.

    I'd bring up Homer; what would you do?

    Homer Bailey is always a fairly hot topic of conversation and perhaps my favorite Reds subject. Unless there's a change of plans, he isn't going to start Sunday's game. Bobby Livingston is.

    I think the Reds are missing a big opportunity here. Why bring up Bailey?

    Jerry Narron said the club wants the guy who's pitching the best. That might be Phil Dumatrait, but it certainly isn't Bobby Livingston. (Dumatrait started Thursday so it isn't going to be him) Livingston's 0-3 with 3.22 ERA. Bailey's 3-1 with a 1.83 ERA. But the big difference in the hits per inning. Bailey's given up 20 in 34 1/3 innings. Livingston's given up 51 hits in 44 2/3 innings. The only argument for Livingston, statistically, is walks. He's walked only four. Bailey's walked 15.

    I simply don't buy the age thing. Ken Griffey Jr. had played in the 282 big league games before he turned 21.

    To me this the perfect scenario. The start's on the road, thus less pressure, if Bailey struggles you simply send him back to Louisville when Eric Milton comes off the DL.

    But the biggest reason to do it Bailey could give a boost to a team that definitely needs one -- not to mention give fans a reason to watch.

    So what would you do? Livingston or Bailey? Or go with bullpen day and start Kirk Saarloos or Victor Santos?

  6. #35
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    Re: Livingston to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Serafini View Post
    Now that's funny! Never expected to see that comparison.
    Very good, but I'd have gone with Dick Trickle or Dave Marcis instead.

  7. #36
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    Re: Livingston to start Sunday

    Well he can't be any worse than Milton
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  8. #37
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    Re: Livingston to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by fewfirstchoice View Post
    The reds brass has something against giving young guys a shot at the league.I mean Homer is as ready as hes ever going to be and sending EE down was a horrible mistake.Let your young players come up and play so they can work out their problems here.
    Homer isnt ready he's walking WAY too many guys and his strike out ratio is down. Until he gets his control precise and has his curveball working we will not see him!

    My person opinion is Dumatrait even though he's walk rate is super high as well. I just think he has better stuff than Livingston. I'm sure we'll see Livingston though.. Just my 2 cents..
    "I think everybody here is definitely excited about (Eddie) Guardado. It wasn't a save situation, but when you've lost a couple like we have, it felt like a save situation." -- Reds manager Jerry Narron on using his newly acquired closer Eddie Guardado.

  9. #38
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Livingston to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by degenerate10 View Post
    Well he can't be any worse than Milton
    Yes he can.

  10. #39
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Livingston to start Sunday

    I think Mr. C is lying through his teeth if he says that the June 1st arb date doesn't mean anything. Its not the fact that Homer isn't the best pitcher in the minors, because he is, its when his arb clock starts ticking. Look at some of the contracts that have been given to both average pitchers, above average pitchers, and good pitchers, they are outrageous. If Homer is brough up early this year then he is 1 year closer to making 10-15+ million. If he is called up sunday then he makes what 4 starts before june 1st? So lets assume he would make 2 home starts. If the reds stadium capacity is 42,000 and the reds average 20,000 and lets assume Homer starts and he sells out both home games he pitches before June 1st. He will bring in roughly 44,000 more people that would originally have come. Lets assume that bringing him up now cost the reds $10 million due to the fact that the reds would basically one cheap year of Homer. The reds basically would have to sell each additional ticket for $230 to make up for the cost difference. It just isn't going to happen and as a fan of a team with limited resources I wouldn't want them to make a snap decision that would cost the team significantly in the long run.

  11. #40
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    Re: Livingston to start Sunday

    Fay is reporting that it's official now.

    Reds just announced that Bobby Livingston will get the start Sunday.

  12. #41
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    Re: Livingston to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I think Mr. C is lying through his teeth if he says that the June 1st arb date doesn't mean anything. Its not the fact that Homer isn't the best pitcher in the minors, because he is, its when his arb clock starts ticking. Look at some of the contracts that have been given to both average pitchers, above average pitchers, and good pitchers, they are outrageous. If Homer is brough up early this year then he is 1 year closer to making 10-15+ million. If he is called up sunday then he makes what 4 starts before june 1st? So lets assume he would make 2 home starts. If the reds stadium capacity is 42,000 and the reds average 20,000 and lets assume Homer starts and he sells out both home games he pitches before June 1st. He will bring in roughly 44,000 more people that would originally have come. Lets assume that bringing him up now cost the reds $10 million due to the fact that the reds would basically one cheap year of Homer. The reds basically would have to sell each additional ticket for $230 to make up for the cost difference. It just isn't going to happen and as a fan of a team with limited resources I wouldn't want them to make a snap decision that would cost the team significantly in the long run.
    PERFECT POST.... I am in support of this rationale as well.

  13. #42
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    Re: Livingston to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I think Mr. C is lying through his teeth if he says that the June 1st arb date doesn't mean anything. Its not the fact that Homer isn't the best pitcher in the minors, because he is, its when his arb clock starts ticking. Look at some of the contracts that have been given to both average pitchers, above average pitchers, and good pitchers, they are outrageous. If Homer is brough up early this year then he is 1 year closer to making 10-15+ million. If he is called up sunday then he makes what 4 starts before june 1st? So lets assume he would make 2 home starts. If the reds stadium capacity is 42,000 and the reds average 20,000 and lets assume Homer starts and he sells out both home games he pitches before June 1st. He will bring in roughly 44,000 more people that would originally have come. Lets assume that bringing him up now cost the reds $10 million due to the fact that the reds would basically one cheap year of Homer. The reds basically would have to sell each additional ticket for $230 to make up for the cost difference. It just isn't going to happen and as a fan of a team with limited resources I wouldn't want them to make a snap decision that would cost the team significantly in the long run.

    June 1 is not an absolute date, this site lays it out fairly well:

    http://www.letsgotribe.com/story/2006/6/23/15557/1077

    The relevant part is:

    The final catch is the Super Two rule, which is applied to players with more than two years of service time but less than three. Each year, the top 17 percent of these players (in service time) also become arbitration-eligible -- adding millions to their salary, both that year and probably in the future. Because past salary is one of the factors in arbitrated salaries, reaching arbitration a year earlier will also boost a player's salary in all future years.

    If Super Two status is to be avoided, generally it's best not to let a prospect accumulate as many as 130 days of service time before the end of the season.
    There will be right around 130 days left after Sunday, so it's probably not the main issue.

  14. #43
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    Re: Livingston to start Sunday

    I think Homer should stay in AAA for the rest of this season.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
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  15. #44
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    Re: Livingston to start Sunday

    Just because Homer has the best stuff doesn't mean he's the best pitcher. Many people in the Reds organization has said it numerous times: Homer just isn't as polished as they would like him to be. I don't understand why a lot of fans want to rush our prized possession.

    A lot of people were calling for Homer to be up in the majors last year so I'm not sure I trust the fact that a lot of people are calling for him this year.

  16. #45
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    Re: Livingston to start Sunday

    It wasn't about if Livingston would get some starts, but when. That decision can only be made by the coaches that are working with him in AAA. If they think he's ready to at least give it a shot, then he must be ready. Because stat-wise, Dumatrait is the pitcher that's ready. Dumatrait will also get a start in the Majors, and he should also get a start before Bailey does. Bailey, despite the attraction from fans and the media, should not see a Major League game in the next 30 days. He has a lot to learn still according to the quotes from management during Spring Training.


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