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Thread: EE & Defense

  1. #1
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    EE & Defense

    I was curious to see how EEís. Freelís , & Castroís defensive stats compared. I got the following material from the Reds website.


    Player POS G GS INN TC PO A E DP PB SB CS RF FPCT
    J Castro 3B 6 1 20.1 5 2 2 1 0 -------- 1.77 .800
    EE 3B 29 28 238.2 70 28 36 6 2 --------- 2.41 .914
    R Freel 3B 8 6 53.2 24 12 10 2 0 --------- 3.69 .917


    I realize these are very small sample sizes but there are some interesting results. First, EE has been no worse than RF or JC from an error standpoint. Second I was surprised to note RF had a better range factor than EE. That fact completely contradicts what my eyes see. I do attribute that to sample size. The third interesting fact is that EE has only started 80% of the Reds game which does support the concept that EE has been jerked around by Narron and sample size is not an issue here although interpretation may be.

    So, based on 07 performance, EE is, at worst, comparable To RF & JC from a fielding standpoint. Although I didnít pull the numbers, I think career numbers show that EE has a far more potent bat than either RF or JC.

    It awfully difficult for a fan to measure attitude but at the very least EE didnít pull a Kearns and pout for a few days before he reported to AAA. From what Iíve read, and my own observations, I see no lack of effort. In fact, I think his problem is he tries too hard and gets down when heís not producing. If that is the case, he needs a pat on the back and encouragement rather than public criticism.

    Hopefully being optioned will help him but I still feel heís been handled in a clumsy and heavyhanded manner. To make matters worse heís a KEY part of the Reds core because the Reds have no one at Dayton or higher level with anything near his potential.
    Last edited by Stingray; 05-11-2007 at 02:29 PM. Reason: typo

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  3. #2
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: Ee

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
    It awfully difficult for a fan to measure attitude but at the very least EE didnít pull a Kearns and pout for a few days before he reported to AAA.
    Oh man, I thought this myth had been put to bed a long long time ago.

    Keans wasn't pouting.... he had 2-3 days to report to AAA and chose to first visit his father who was in the hospital recuperating from heart surgery. He was not pouting; he was not late reporting.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

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    Re: Ee

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
    The third interesting fact is that EE has only started 80% of the Reds game which does support the concept that EE has been jerked around by Narron and sample size is not an issue here although interpretation may be.
    So EE has started in 8 out of every 10 starts and you equate that as supporting the concept he is being "jerked" around by Narron. I just don't get that thinking.

    I guess you are right, it is about interpretation in this case.

  5. #4
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Ee

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone View Post
    Oh man, I thought this myth had been put to bed a long long time ago.

    Keans wasn't pouting.... he had 2-3 days to report to AAA and chose to first visit his father who was in the hospital recuperating from heart surgery. He was not pouting; he was not late reporting.
    Actually he reported in the time allowed under the players agreement.

  6. #5
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Ee

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
    Hopefully being optioned will help him but I still feel heís been handled in a clumsy and heavyhanded manner. To make matters worse heís a KEY part of the Reds core because the Reds have no one at Dayton or higher level with anything near his potential.
    I'm sure we'll go on for weeks about EE, but I don't think it was any one thing that caused him to be sent down. I think he'll be the better for it, assuming he takes advantage and works on his game. He'll survive - it's doubtful at the moment that the team is looking to toss him overboard.

  7. #6
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    Re: Ee

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    I'm sure we'll go on for weeks about EE, but I don't think it was any one thing that caused him to be sent down. I think he'll be the better for it, assuming he takes advantage and works on his game. He'll survive - it's doubtful at the moment that the team is looking to toss him overboard.
    This is the point I've started trying to make also, Redsmetz.

    If it were just that we weren't hitting good, or just making some errors, or just making dumb throwing decisions, or just having the occasional brain fart you could easily overlook the shortcomming.

    But in combination? From the guy we hope anchors 3B for a long time? From a guy who we are depending on for offesense (although based on the performance thus far, it looks like they have done so-so without him) to compete?

    Sorry, time to go down and get your head together.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Re: Ee

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone View Post
    Oh man, I thought this myth had been put to bed a long long time ago.

    Keans wasn't pouting.... he had 2-3 days to report to AAA and chose to first visit his father who was in the hospital recuperating from heart surgery. He was not pouting; he was not late reporting.

    I had never heard about his father - but didn't Kearns also make a number of critical comments about his being optioned? If not, I retract the Kearns comment. I still think EE's lack of public reaction has been a positive.

    By the way is there any way to edit a title? It was meant to be EE.

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    Re: Ee

    Of course a contrarian might claim that EE internalizes entirely too much and that might be one of his problems.

    I think it is a move that had to be done. I'm not sure how much of this has to do with his handling, the booing from the stands, or the constant criticism thrown his way from the broadcast booth, but Edwin is a wreck. He needs to get out of the spotlight, relax and concentrate on getting back to that confortable place. I wish him the best and hope he can come back better than ever.

  10. #9
    Member Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Ee

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingray View Post


    I realize these are very small sample sizes but there are some interesting results. First, EE has been no worse than RF or JC from an error standpoint. Second I was surprised to note RF had a better range factor than EE. That fact completely contradicts what my eyes see. I do attribute that to sample size. The third interesting fact is that EE has only started 80% of the Reds game which does support the concept that EE has been jerked around by Narron and sample size is not an issue here although interpretation may be.

    .
    Before yesterday BP had started 33 games, BP had started 32 games, Gonzo had started 29 games, and EE had started 28 games, and Freel 24. He started 28 out of 34 games, it's not like he was getting platooned.

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    Re: Ee

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Shines View Post
    Before yesterday BP had started 33 games, BP had started 32 games, Gonzo had started 29 games, and EE had started 28 games, and Freel 24. He started 28 out of 34 games, it's not like he was getting platooned.


    Gonzo missed most of his games when he had a sick family member. I think most agree that Freel's playing style requires more time off and Phillips missed half the games EE did. More importantly, unlike the other players, it was usually made to appear EE was being disciplined when he sat.

  12. #11
    Member Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Ee

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
    Gonzo missed most of his games when he had a sick family member. I think most agree that Freel's playing style requires more time off and Phillips missed half the games EE did. More importantly, unlike the other players, it was usually made to appear EE was being disciplined when he sat.
    No it wasn't. 2 of the games he didn't start were both times Oswalt started. He'd struck out almost every AB against Oswalt, and he was already struggling at the plate, Narron was probably just trying to give him a break. So if we're counting why guys didn't start games, there's two for EE.

    Wouldn't we want Phillips to play as often as possible? He's hitting (he shouldn't be batting high in the order), but he's hitting and he rarely makes mistakes on defense.

    How is it punishment to give a guy who is struggling a couple more days off than other guys? The point is: He was getting his chances. He wasn't anywhere near being platooned, he was regularly starting, he wasn't being jerked around.

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    Re: Ee

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Shines View Post
    No it wasn't. 2 of the games he didn't start were both times Oswalt started. He'd struck out almost every AB against Oswalt, and he was already struggling at the plate, Narron was probably just trying to give him a break. So if we're counting why guys didn't start games, there's two for EE.

    Wouldn't we want Phillips to play as often as possible? He's hitting (he shouldn't be batting high in the order), but he's hitting and he rarely makes mistakes on defense.

    How is it punishment to give a guy who is struggling a couple more days off than other guys? The point is: He was getting his chances. He wasn't anywhere near being platooned, he was regularly starting, he wasn't being jerked around.
    You and I just have different interpertations of events.

  14. #13
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Ee

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
    More importantly, unlike the other players, it was usually made to appear EE was being disciplined when he sat.
    Does the appearance make it reality?
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  15. #14
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    Re: Ee

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
    You and I just have different interpertations of events.
    So basically the only way you would see it as not "jerking" him around would be if EE had started every single game?

  16. #15
    Member Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Ee

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
    You and I just have different interpertations of events.
    I guess I choose not to believe that Narron hates Edwin and was intentionally trying to mess with EE so he could have a reason to send him to AAA. I guess Narron's on cruise control now. He accomplished his goal 6 weeks into the season, everything else is just icing on the cake.


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