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Thread: Desperation Thunder Lineup To Compensate For The Poor Pitching

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    Desperation Thunder Lineup To Compensate For The Poor Pitching

    A "thunder" lineup puts the best sticks in the game virtually regardless of their defensive capabilities. It might be the only way to consistently run up a big enough lead to allow Jerry to then turn the game over to the unreliable pen and meanwhile get his best gloves off the bench into the game to help protect the (in theory) lead.

    For example:

    1B - HATTEBERG
    2B - PHILLIPS
    SS - GONZALEZ
    3B - CONINE
    LF- DUNN
    CF - HAMILTON
    RF - GRIFFEY
    C - VALENTIN (He might even be hitting better right-handed than Ross is presently)

    The thunder lineup has so many good bats that even whoever is batting 7th in the order is assured decent "protection" by the # 8 guy.

    The thunder lineup would never require pinch-hitting one position player off the bench for another position player; all that's required is that Hopper, Ross, Freel, Keppinger, and/or Castro be a better offensive threat than the Reds' pitchers for whom they would be hitting.

    With a hypothetical lead -- I'll arbitrarily say a 4 run lead after perhaps 6/7 innings -- the defense could then include some of the following bench guys:

    1B - HATTEBERG
    2B - PHILLIPS
    SS - GONZALEZ
    3B - Castro
    LF- Hopper
    CF - Freel
    RF - HAMILTON
    C - Ross

    Yes, with Conine at 3B (until EE gets back up) it's a desperation lineup, but these are desperate times for the Reds and Reds' fans.

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    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Desperation Thunder Lineup To Compensate For The Poor Pitching

    Ross is actually outslugging Valentin but Javy has him in OBP by a wide margin. It's scary that Conine and his .238/.315/.429 line is a part of any "thunder" lineup.

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    Re: Desperation Thunder Lineup To Compensate For The Poor Pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    Ross is actually outslugging Valentin but Javy has him in OBP by a wide margin. It's scary that Conine and his .238/.315/.429 line is a part of any "thunder" lineup.
    In just 63 AB, Conine's .744 OBP ranks him sixth on the team, ahead of both Hatteberg and Freel. What might he be achieving if he had Hatteberg's 96, Freel's 123 or Philllips' 158 AB? He just might be displacing Phillips as the #5 OBP guy if he had not been riding the pines all of this time.

    If so, then that means more run production from his individual spot in the batting order and a possible preventing of the opposition from pitching around/"pitching tough" to/intentionally walking others in the lineup.

    Conine has played under 70 big league games at 3B, and only 2 in the last couple of years. But the present anemic offense needs at least 8 hitters; the DH lineup in Cleveland should tell.

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    Re: Desperation Thunder Lineup To Compensate For The Poor Pitching

    Playing Conine over Freel and Javy over Ross turns this offense into some sort of juggernaut? Wow....just wow. Two guys that are lucky to still be on a major league roster.

    In just 63 AB, Conine's .744 OBP ranks him sixth on the team, ahead of both Hatteberg and Freel. What might he be achieving if he had Hatteberg's 96, Freel's 123 or Philllips' 158 AB? He just might be displacing Phillips as the #5 OBP guy if he had not been riding the pines all of this time.
    I assume you mean OPS. Considering that OPS is independent on the number of ABs one gets, I don't get the 'in only 63 AB' comment. In fact, since Conine has been presumably getting most of his ABs in matchups favorable to him, you would expect his numbers to drop given full time play.

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    Re: Desperation Thunder Lineup To Compensate For The Poor Pitching

    Wasn't 'Desperation Thunder' the name of a 90's Hulk Hogan movie?
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: Desperation Thunder Lineup To Compensate For The Poor Pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    Playing Conine over Freel and Javy over Ross turns this offense into some sort of juggernaut? Wow....just wow.



    I assume you mean OPS. Considering that OPS is independent on the number of ABs one gets, I don't get the 'in only 63 AB' comment. In fact, since Conine has been presumably getting most of his ABs in matchups favorable to him, you would expect his numbers to drop given full time play.
    Part of me WOULD like to see Conine at 3B, more for the comedic value than anything else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: Desperation Thunder Lineup To Compensate For The Poor Pitching

    Conine has been an out machine so far with a little bit of pop. As puca said, his numbers will probably get slightly worse if given an everyday job.

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    Re: Desperation Thunder Lineup To Compensate For The Poor Pitching

    So, the only real change is putting a bad fielding OF at third base in place of a better hitter.

    I have trouble believeing that your post was meant seriously, as you've actually downgraded the offense and the defense.

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    Re: Desperation Thunder Lineup To Compensate For The Poor Pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    So, the only real change is putting a bad fielding OF at third base in place of a better hitter.

    I have trouble believeing that your post was meant seriously, as you've actually downgraded the offense and the defense.
    I'm never more serious than when the Reds are on a losing binge. Admittedly, the defense would be a downgrade, but only actually playing Conine at 3B and Javy in place of Ross would prove whether you are right or wrong about the offense. Obviously, the current 8 position guys are not getting it done. Would you continue to play those 8?

    BTW, Conine so far is .220/.298/.439 against LHP, and is .273/.346/.409 against RHP. So I think he'd improve with more PT.

    You're correct Wily Mo, my comment about Conine's .744 should have been OPS, but my reference to his few AB just was meant to show that an increase in PT might prove helpful to Conine and his stats.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Desperation Thunder Lineup To Compensate For The Poor Pitching

    Any "best 8 lineup" that doesn't include EE isn't our best 8. I don't care if he's not on the 25 man.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Desperation Thunder Lineup To Compensate For The Poor Pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Wasn't 'Desperation Thunder' the name of a 90's Hulk Hogan movie?
    Wasn't that Thunder in Paradise?
    Go Gators!

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    Re: Desperation Thunder Lineup To Compensate For The Poor Pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Wasn't that Thunder in Paradise?
    LOL Yeah I believe so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: Desperation Thunder Lineup To Compensate For The Poor Pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Any "best 8 lineup" that doesn't include EE isn't our best 8. I don't care if he's not on the 25 man.
    That's just crazy talk!! Don't you know he's the whipping boy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"



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